Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
Well, Leslie, this is the day the Lord has made.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:05]:
And I will rejoice in this studio and be glad. And be glad in it, because God.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:10]:
Made us a new studio. No, seriously, this is our new space.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:16]:
We've been.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:17]:
We love it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:18]:
How long do you think we've been making this space? How long have we been in construction on this?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:23]:
Well, I think the guys started at least over, like six to eight months ago.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:28]:
Okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:29]:
So maybe this has been a long time coming.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:30]:
A long time coming. And we've. We had this idea. We didn't have any of these ideas. These ideas were. Are beyond our pay grade, but we had the idea to move into a new studio. Studio where we could face each other. We could have on guests.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:42]:
And I already feel like podcasting is going to be a good studio. Makes podcasting so fun.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:50]:
It does make it. I mean, I loved our old studio because it was like, kind of like when you move into, like your first apartment or your first place, you're like, oh, this is our little studio. Our little corner.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:01]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:01]:
And now I feel like this is our big girl studio. This is the big girl studio. So pretty. And we love it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:07]:
Studio of our dreams.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:08]:
This is the studio of our dreams. So if you're not watching on Spotify, maybe you might want to switch on over.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:14]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:14]:
Come to the Spotify side. And this should be able to watch.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:17]:
I hope this will trigger our YouTube. We want to. We want to put stuff on YouTube too.
Unidentified [00:01:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:21]:
So my dad can find us. Because every time we post an episode.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:24]:
Your dad only watch YouTube.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:26]:
He.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:27]:
I think. I think he must use mom's Spotify account or something now to watch these because he's found it and he has. He's in the habit of it.
Unidentified [00:01:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:34]:
But I think all men his age are YouTube people. They're like, why is this not on YouTube? They have it as an app installed on their. On their. On the. I'm sorry. This is so funny. I'm just remembering this moment about YouTube, sort of. My dad has this LG TV that is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:53]:
It is. It's. What's the word? Mounted.
Unidentified [00:01:57]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:58]:
In.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:58]:
On the back patio at the ranch. You've seen it when you walk outside.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:00]:
It's like the big of the ranch.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:02]:
Big mounted TV in the back patio. It's like an LG or whatever. And it. He wants.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:08]:
He want.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:08]:
He wanted to get the YouTube TV app on the LG TV. He's had this TV for like over 10 years now. He's like, we. I need YouTube TV on this TV, cuz. It has all their channels and stuff too. Whatever. So he calls LG support and is like, hey, we need. I.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:24]:
I need YouTube TV on this TV. Like, can you help me download it? And they're like, well, sir, that TV's too old now, so there's actually no software update we can even give you. To get YouTube TV, the app on that TV, you'll have to get a new TV. He's like, okay, so I'm going to. I'll return this TV and you'll just send me a brand new tv. He was just like, talking to them.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:45]:
Like, no, dad, this is not like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:46]:
You bought the wrong TV and you return it. It's like, you've had this t for over 10 years. Like, now you're gonna have to go invest in a new one. And in his mind, it's like, if.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:54]:
You don't give me YouTube TV, this is an even exchange.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:58]:
I will send this one back to you. You send me the new version. It was just. It was so wholesome and, like, unassuming.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:05]:
Sweet. It's like having the iPhone. And you're like, well, this one's now outdated, so clearly it's. Something's wrong with it now. So you have to send me this. That's such a dad thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:13]:
Have you heard your parents on customer support? Maybe. Maybe your dad and you do you hear, like, you hear them ask a very outrageous question or make an outrageous statement, and you just listen for what the person's going to say, and you're just like.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:25]:
You're like, this is not going to go well. Oh, my God. What about. It's like our dads with TVs. Like, my dad, he's really like, they. They watch. They have Dish. So that's how they have all, like, their channels and whatever.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:38]:
But they used to have. What's the other one that's really popular? DirecTV.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:44]:
DirecTV.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:45]:
They used to have that. And then DirecTV upset him for some reason. There was some whole thing about it upsetting him. So he switches over to Dish, and then they upset him. So he switched back and forth between the two of them. But it's so funny. Every time he does, it's like he lets everybody know, hey, guys, Dish is not like, he will get out there and he'll just do spokesperson. All his friends.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:07]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:08]:
And he's like, switch to Dish.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:10]:
They're like, no idea how much business. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:12]:
Three months later, he moves back over.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:14]:
And he just has to tell everybody.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:15]:
I know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:16]:
I love.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:16]:
Let them all know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:17]:
A tv. Yes. Is that Is so funny.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:22]:
I have an unpopular opinion that was literally birthed out of this morning. And it's a pregnancy related unpopular opinion. So if people have not been pregnant or whatever this, you'll. You'll still remember this for when you are pregnant. Everybody has horror stories about the gestational diabetes test, which, yes, happens right at 28 weeks, which is what we are this week. And what you do is you have to go into a lab, like a blood workplace.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:50]:
They give you this drink that's very.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:53]:
Sugary, very high in glucose. You have to drink it in five minutes. At least this is how my test went. Drink it in five minutes, you sit there for an hour, and then after an hour of sitting there, you go back and they draw blood from you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:06]:
Okay, now I guess that there's different.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:08]:
Versions of the test. This one was a non fasting one hour. Very like, it's like the bottle was this big, so you had to drink this much liquid in five minutes.
Unidentified [00:05:18]:
Okay.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:18]:
Some tests are three hours long. They're like really extensive and you have to fast beforehand and you drink a larger amount of liquid over a longer. So I understand that it's not like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:28]:
The most pleasant test, but everyone has.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:31]:
Said it tastes so gross. You're gonna be so nauseous. Good luck keeping it down. Like, everyone was freaking me out about this test. I got in there today and popped it open, took a little sip, and I was like, this is actually really good. I would keep these stocked in my fridge.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:47]:
I love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:48]:
They were honestly bomb. Like, it should have been colder.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:51]:
Okay. You're like, could you guys refrigerate this?
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:54]:
But it reminds me of like a sonic drink.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:56]:
Like a.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:57]:
Like a really.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:57]:
Like an ocean water kind of, but clear. And I was like, what is everyone complaining about? This is awesome.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:03]:
Like, you got a few to go. I know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:05]:
So hopefully I passed it because then I'll just have a positive experience with it versus, like having to go back and get the. The real deal one.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:13]:
But oh, my God.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:14]:
My unpopular opinion is that that drink is actually really good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:17]:
And we.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:17]:
There's a lot of unpleasant things about pregnancy. That was not one of them.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:21]:
That reminds me of those Gatorade, the Gatorade light things. I bought one of those the other day thinking, oh, it's like Gatorade light. Like it's probably like a less intense, sugary. No, it. That thing is thick. It's like full of salt.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:35]:
It's like more electrolytes. More.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:37]:
It's like 400 milligrams of sodium or.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:39]:
Something it's meant for, like, real.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:41]:
You might like. You might try that. Then I, too, it was like, they're.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:45]:
Like, do you want lemon lime? Do you want orange? I'm like, which one do people say that they hate less? And she's like, most people go with lemon lime. I'm like, okay, let's try it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:52]:
And then it is fascinating.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:54]:
I love that. You know what? I feel like a lot of people like to. And maybe this is truly how they feel, but I just feel like people are always like, ew, sugar. Like, ew. It's just too ew. It's too sugary. And I'm like, too sugary? What do you mean? Like, ew, it tastes too good. Like, you're like.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:11]:
You're set off by the fact that it's too good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:13]:
Have you ever eaten something that you have been like. Like, man, that's too sweet?
Leslie Johnston [00:07:18]:
No, probably not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:20]:
I feel that way about.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:21]:
I love sweet things.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:22]:
Like, now if it's thick, like a thick, sugary, maybe.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:27]:
Maybe too much, but probably even not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:29]:
The only thing I've ever eaten where.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:30]:
I'm like, oh, it's too sweet. It makes me nauseous. Is cake icing?
Leslie Johnston [00:07:36]:
Oh, I love cake.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:37]:
But, like, the kind that's, like, almost.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:38]:
Like, gritty, sugary, fondant. Like the thick.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:41]:
Yeah, yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:42]:
The kind that you get, like, when.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:43]:
You go to the grocery store and get like a.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:45]:
Like a grocery store birthday cake or.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:47]:
And it's like, thick layer of icing.
Unidentified [00:07:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:49]:
And it's not.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:50]:
No, I get that. I get that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:52]:
It's way too much.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:53]:
This is also reminding me of. On a separate note, I love our intros to these episodes because we had someone last week, it was their first time listening to the podcast, and they're like, it's. It's really different. I feel like, you guys, your intros are just so. I've never heard a podcast have an intro so long.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:14]:
Wait, oh, did I tell you this?
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:16]:
Wait, who said this?
Leslie Johnston [00:08:17]:
Wait, I'll tell you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:19]:
Where are these comments coming from? I.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:21]:
There's two things. It, like, wasn't a bad thing. It was more just like, this is so interesting. This podcast I listen to there. Or like, you guys, you just. The intro is so long. Like, you just take so long to start talking about this stuff to get to the point. And I'm like, yeah, we're yappers.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:38]:
Is that maybe that's not normal for, like, Christian girl? I feel like most Christian podcasts don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:44]:
They don't yap. They get to It. They get to the point it's very like, this is what we talk about.
Unidentified [00:08:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:50]:
So we definitely don't do that.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:51]:
It's not your average.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:52]:
Also, podcast.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:53]:
Have I already talked to the listeners about the. The food situation?
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:58]:
I don't know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:58]:
Someone commented and was like, hey, I haven't seen it. You saw it. You didn't tell me about it. Someone else said something and they're like, hey, y'. All. Like, can you not wait till. Eat till after the podcast?
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:09]:
So my apologies if you don't like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:11]:
The sound of chewing in your ears. I guess that. That is a problem.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:15]:
You wouldn't like asmr.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:17]:
Tik tok. I love a mukbang.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:19]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:19]:
Or an ASMR or whatever, so that doesn't bother me.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:22]:
But also, Morgan's pregnant, so sometimes eating is just have to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:26]:
It's just a protein box from Starbucks. It's not like I'm slurping on noodles or something, like.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:31]:
Or some soup. Some ramen.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:33]:
Some ramen. I would.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:34]:
I would do that, but it's not like I did.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:36]:
It was just like a crunch. Like a cracker.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:38]:
Yeah, we need to do that. We need to do that again where we bring on a Trader Joe's snack like we did with those little oatmeal cookies. Do you remember that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:46]:
That was so good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:48]:
What we actually need to do is try before I'm not pregnant, because then.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:51]:
We'Ll have to wait till you're pregnant and.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:53]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:53]:
And then.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:54]:
Or until I'm pregnant again.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:55]:
But. But we need to. We need to do the whole, like, pregnancy craving combos that people sent in, because people tend to do that. So many combinations, and we're gonna miss our window, and I might not do this again.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:07]:
So I don't know. So we're up to get it. We're gonna have to get it going. So funny, because there were some really good ones people sent.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:15]:
I. Oh, some weird ones, too. I would love to do that, actually. Let's do it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:19]:
We'll have to.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:20]:
Maybe our next one. Or maybe we'll do, like, an Instagram reel about it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:22]:
Let's do it.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:24]:
All right. Well, we're excited to talk about this subject. I mean, I don't know if this isn't, like, excited to talk about this subject, but to me, when you sent that we were going to talk about this, I was like, I think we should talk about this because I need it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:37]:
Really?
Unidentified [00:10:37]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:38]:
We're going to talk about anger. And I don't feel like I'm curious what your answer would be to this, like, do you feel like when you first think of anger, do you feel like you struggle with anger or are an angry person? Because I instantly thought, like, we're going to talk about this at church this weekend, so you guys will be hearing this post church, if you go to Bayside. But anger, to me, I would go like, oh, I'm. I'm not an angry person. Like, I don't struggle with, like, freaking out or, like, flying off the handle, whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:11]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:12]:
But then I started thinking about it and I'm like, oh, actually I do think I struggle with anger.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:18]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:18]:
In. In a different way.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:20]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:21]:
Like bitterness and, you know, resentfulness and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I'd be here. Do you feel like you're an angry person?
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:27]:
I. I would say. I would say yes. Only because, like you said, I think anger is a big umbrella term for lots of different kinds of emotions.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:37]:
And yes, I would say I'm like an easily set off person, like in, in general, but.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:45]:
But not, not necessarily in the way where you're going to experience the explosion. There are some people that will experience.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:53]:
The explosion, but more so like, just for me internally, like, I am easily. I'm easily triggered, I would say, by things.
Unidentified [00:12:04]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:04]:
Do you feel like you're. Do you feel like you're an easily triggered person? Or do you feel like you're generally more even keeled?
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:10]:
But there are certain seasons where your.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:13]:
Anger, emotion can be heightened.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:16]:
Yes, I would say I have a pretty strong justice bone. And to me, if. If something is either gonna affect me or somebody, I get, like, pretty easily angered. But again, it's not like I'm like. I don't know if I've ever, like, screamed. I mean, I've screamed at someone, like, probably like a sibling or I don't know, certain times. But it's not like I'm gonna go scream at somebody at the office or like, I. I don't like.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:45]:
To me, that's not a struggle.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:46]:
But.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:47]:
But I can really quickly be like, oh, that person just said this. Now, instantly, I've made so many things in my mind that I'm set up at them for. And then it's like that infiltrates like, the rest of my experiences with people around me. And then I just, I get in this mode where it's like, you start to spiral and you're like, well, this sucks and that sucks and I gotta take care of this. And oh my gosh, everything is the worst. And I feel like I can go down that road really.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:12]:
Quickly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:13]:
What's the thing?
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:14]:
What's the, the very small thing in life that can make you the most angry?
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:19]:
Like a great question.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:20]:
You know the thing when people are like, if my bag gets hung on something as I'm trying to get out.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:25]:
Of the car, that like, that literally happened to me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:28]:
Yeah. So what's your thing where you're like, if this happens, it's the smallest thing, but you're like, this makes me want to scream. I.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:40]:
Well, I literally was like walking out of the restroom last night at Troy and Rosie's house and my like belt loop got caught on something and I'm literally like hanging outside the bathroom and I was like, that didn't make me mad though.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:56]:
I was embarrassing.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:58]:
Gosh, that's a great wait. What's your, what's your answer recently?
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:01]:
And it's, it's my own fault, which is why I think it's so funny. It's when I can't find something in.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:06]:
My bag that is small, but everything in my bag is free floating.
Unidentified [00:14:10]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:10]:
So it's like, it's my own thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:12]:
I should have better organization. If I had organization to my bag, I would be able to find everything very easily. And yet I toss it in there once I'm done and then get so mad when I'm unable to relocate it an hour later when I need it. It's chapstick. It's like my little nausea sticks. It's a medicine. It's something that's like small and it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:32]:
Just folds itself into the creases of the bag that just irritates me. The second thing is Benji's gotten in this habit of getting home before me and he accidentally always locks the door from the garage into the house, which is my primary way of entering. And every time I have to pull.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:52]:
Up my keys and like find the.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:54]:
Right one and open.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:55]:
It's like, it shouldn't make me mad, but it just does. It sets me off so easily.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:59]:
That's so funny. Again, this is more of a self induced one. But I, when I'm carrying too many things, I get so mad. Like I don't know what it is, but it's like yesterday I was trying and it's my fault. My purse is too small to hold my laptop and my water bottle and I have like four water bottles for some reason. So I'm like holding all these things and I'm like getting to my car and I'm like, I'm so mad. I have holding all these things and I'm like, why Am I mad? Like, why am I mad that I have to hold stuff?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:28]:
Too many things to hold.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:28]:
It's just too many things to hold and then you got to, like, get your ph. Oh, my gosh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:32]:
It is, it is. Seriously, those kinds of things can ruin a whole day, a whole attitude, a whole interaction. It's.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:41]:
So who's the person you call when you need to vent? Like, if there's. And we'll talk about venting and stuff because I think we have some interesting takes on it. But who's the person when, like the most minor inconvenience happens to you that you can call and you can absolutely unleash on about the stupid inconvenience?
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:00]:
Probably my siblings. I would also say that you're on that list. Yeah, my mom and Benji are more so the people. Not that I'm complaining too, but that I'm like, I'm like responding poorly to. Like, they are the ones that usually.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:14]:
Get taken out on.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:15]:
Yeah, but sisters, you guys, that's kind of like the. This happened and I'm just. I have to get this off my chest. I'm so annoyed.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:24]:
Oh, yeah. Sometimes I'll just like, open up your text and I'm like, voice, message, voice. Oh, my gosh.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:30]:
You wouldn't believe, you know, what I've.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:33]:
Been doing recently because I felt a little bit convicted about my words and what I say. So sometimes I will send like a 4 minute voice message to like, Christy or you, and then I'll just delete it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:46]:
Delete. So that we can't even hear it.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:49]:
Like, I'm like, I can't send this, but I really wanted to say it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:52]:
That's so funny. I actually pulled up my phone to text you something yesterday and stop myself.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:57]:
Oh, what is convicted because of conviction? I'm so bad at that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:03]:
I. It was like, well, it's. It's like it was actually I was convicted because of this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:09]:
So the idea.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:11]:
Here's, here's kind of a thing that we can like a demystify kind of right here off the top. The question is, the first question we.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:18]:
Have to establish is, is anger actually sinful? Is anger something that we're supposed to avoid or, like, put off? And Scripture would say that anger is actually unavoidable. Which is funny because most Christians, I think, have this, this weird setting in their head that, like, anger is not something that Christians are allowed to struggle with. You're supposed to be gentle and meek.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:44]:
And go with the flow at all times. You're not supposed to experience anger if you experience anger, it's like, sinful. The same things usually apply to the idea of worry, too. Like, okay, well, it's actually sinful for you to worry. It's sinful for you to have anxiety. Okay.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:58]:
Emotions can't be inherently sinful. Yeah, they can. Timothy Keller says this, which I think is really, really a great illustration for it. Emotions are like fruit. All fruit is good. But if it goes rancid for a variety of reasons, then it becomes bad.
Leslie Johnston [00:18:16]:
Oh, that's.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:17]:
So the emotion of anger is not in and of itself bad. And the reason we know it's not bad, a, because in Ephesians it talks about this. And Jesus is recorded as being angry a few different times when he does stuff. So if he felt it, then it must not be sin, because he's not sin. Yeah, but you said this a second ago. You have a high justice meter. So a lot of people's anger, and we live in a time right now that's, like, charged with the emotion of anger.
Morgan May Treuil [00:18:46]:
And a lot of that anger has to do with they feel someone or a group of people. Something's being done unjustly, Someone is being treated evilly. And if we are not angered by the ingest treatment of somebody or the evil done against somebody, then is not feeling anger actually the sinful thing. Right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:11]:
So anger in and of itself. We have to establish that, like, Mythbuster at the top, anger is not a sin. You are allowed to feel anger, and you honestly are not really able to control the feeling of anger. It's what happens with the anger after.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:26]:
You feel it that can produce sin.
Unidentified [00:19:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:30]:
So what we have to more so, like, establish is what are you supposed to do with anger?
Unidentified [00:19:36]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:36]:
Once it enters the chat.
Unidentified [00:19:38]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:39]:
And is your anger probably even becoming really good at labeling why you feel angry? Because I think if we can just go, okay, anger's not wrong, but then it's what you do with it. But part of me goes, you're getting angry for a reason. So could you put it in the category of, like, righteous anger, which I think is a good thing. Like, you should have righteous. Like, you should have righteous anger. Like if. Yeah, exactly. If you're being treated un.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:08]:
Poorly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:08]:
Unjustly or poorly. Yeah, yeah, whichever.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:11]:
Un, Poorly, unporly, then you should feel that way. But I think we can also sometimes go, okay, well, if it's not a justice. Anger.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:21]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:22]:
What is beneath the anger? Like, is it because you are insecure about something and someone's pointing something out that makes you then angry or Are you, Do you have some, like, unworked through, you know, past trauma or past things that it's like, I don't, I think sometimes we need to stop and go, okay, why am I getting angry?
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:44]:
It's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:45]:
Like I need to be self aware and go, okay, I think that I'm being, I'm angry because of this. Doesn't make it wrong to be angry, but it just, it highlights some things that maybe go, oh, maybe I should work through some of those things because maybe then the anger won't show up as much.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:00]:
That's a really good point. Wesley Town said something yesterday that I thought in our sermon prep conversation that I thought was really good. There's either actual injustice or there's perceived injustice, and both of those things will produce anger in you. And so it's like that take a look under the hood sort of idea of is what I'm feeling angry over because something actually unjust has been done.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:23]:
To me, someone I love or something in the world?
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:27]:
Or do I perceive that something has happened? Like maybe I'm insecure or I'm feeling lonely or isolated. Do I perceive something has happened that actually hasn't happened?
Unidentified [00:21:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:39]:
And then I'm, I'm getting angry over something that's not reality. Right. And I think that that's like what.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:46]:
We'Re talking about here is pausing to deal with the emotion. So, and I think that this is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:51]:
Important for Christians to hear because if.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:53]:
You'Ve been taught growing up that anger is a sin, you're not supposed to feel anger. Then in the past, when you have felt anger, your natural inclination has probably been to brush it under the rug, suppress it and stuff it down, or maybe even mislabel it as something that it's not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:13]:
Right?
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:13]:
So like, well, no, it's not anger.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:15]:
It's. What was an example someone used yesterday? Well, it's not anger, but it does.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:19]:
Feel really, like, big.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:21]:
Maybe it's depression or maybe it's, I.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:25]:
Don'T know, maybe it's like heartbreak. Or you can mislabel anger if you don't feel like you're allowed to feel it. And then what ends up happening is if it's brushed under the rug, so stuffed down or mislabeled, it doesn't go away. It actually sits there for a very long period of time. And nothing that sits for that long is ever healthy. Like that begins. So what you're talking about is really important. It's a.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:50]:
I need to identify what this is so that I can deal with it. It's the feel and deal kind of mentality. Right. So anger can't sit still. It also can't move too fast because we see the negative sides of both of those things. If anger sits still for too long, then you've got grudge mode and bitterness. If it moves too fast, then you've got outbursts and lashing out and things like that. So it's got to be like, felt, seen, dealt with.
Unidentified [00:23:19]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:20]:
And then you have to move forward. So establishing what it is and why you feel it.
Unidentified [00:23:24]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:24]:
Is really, really important.
Unidentified [00:23:26]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:23:27]:
I liken that verse. Do you have that verse? The. In your anger, do not sin.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:31]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:31]:
So. So let's.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:33]:
The passage is. It comes out of Ephesians and it's right after this idea of putting on and putting off. So because. Because you are a Christian, because Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins, you're a new person now. So the old ways don't apply to you. You have to put on what's good and take off what's right. And it was language, like an illustration, kind of like you and I put on clothes and take off clothes. So it's like, because this is who I am now, I'm gonna put on these things and take off these things.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:02]:
So the passage is in Ephesians 4. 25. Therefore, each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. In your anger, do not sin.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:14]:
Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work doing something useful with their own hands that they may have something to share with those in need. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mout mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen and do not grieve. The Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as Christ forgave you. So that's the path.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:51]:
It's more than just the anger issue.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:53]:
It's like she had a few different things. Yeah, it's lying.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:56]:
It's your words, it's those kinds of things. But anger is the one that's visited a couple of times in that passage, probably because it's a very common and very heavily felt, fiery, passionate, Emotion.
Unidentified [00:25:11]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:11]:
I like that it says in your anger, do not sin. So therefore, it just. It proves that anger is not the sin.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:19]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:19]:
But then it says, do not let. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. So moving through it, you know, not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:27]:
Staying stagnant in it, which a point on that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:29]:
This is where a lot of married couples get the whole principle of, like, don't go to bed angry.
Unidentified [00:25:33]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:33]:
Which I think is funny because I've had lots of marriage fights that have been solved by sleeping and by eating.
Unidentified [00:25:41]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:41]:
I was just going to say this. Last week, I was talking to my sister and I'm, like, raging about something. I'm like, yes. On one. About an issue or whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:50]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:51]:
And then Christie's like, have you eaten anything recently? And I'm like, actually, no, it's.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:56]:
I'm actually starving.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:57]:
4:00 I'm starving because I haven't had dinner yet. Yeah. I was like, I went and ate something and I'm like, I feel better.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:02]:
I feel so much better. So it's like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:04]:
It's not. It's the literal. The literal, like, don't go. Don't let the sun go down in your anger is not like, hey, before.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:10]:
You go to sleep, make sure you make amends. Because some things actually sleep and food helps. But it's the idea of, like, don't let this, like, long time pass.
Unidentified [00:26:19]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:19]:
On your anger.
Unidentified [00:26:20]:
Yeah, exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:21]:
Continue what you're saying.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:22]:
But I just. I love that it says, and do not give the devil a foothold. And I feel like if we let our anger turn into sin and we don't pass or we don't pass through anger quick enough of, like, learning to let go of it. That's when we're, like, literally giving the devil a foothold in our life. And so I think a lot of times we think, no harm, no foul. I can be angry. I can vent. I can go talk to my friend.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:52]:
And in, like, the. Oh, I'm just venting to a friend. It can turn into sin.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:58]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:58]:
Which then gives Satan the ability to be like, oh, good, I've got this foothold in you now. Like, I just. I didn't. I've never thought about anger like that. I've always thought about, well, I can just, like, get this off my chest. And it's not that big of a deal.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:13]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:14]:
But I'm like, oh, am I, like, giving a foothold to something that's gonna actually then have a hold on me?
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:20]:
Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:20]:
Cause that's literally what A foothold is y literally holding you in that anger. When we don't forgive, when we don't move on, when we don't, like, we hold on to those things, and it ends up hurting us more than it hurts. I mean, we hear that all the time. It's like not forgiving someone hurts you more than it hurts the other person.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:37]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:38]:
And it just, like, has a new perspective in my mind where I used to kind of think, like, anger's not that big of a deal.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:44]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:44]:
And now I'm like, oh, shoot, am I, like, caught in this? Yeah, it's interesting.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:50]:
It is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:51]:
It's really interesting. And there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:53]:
There's a reason why I think verse 27, don't give the devil a foothold, goes right after that. Don't let the sun go down. And you're angry. It must mean that grudge. Grudges over a long period of time are destructive not just to other people, but to you.
Unidentified [00:28:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:09]:
And it gives the enemy space to you. I mean, I've met people, and if I have been in relationship with people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:17]:
Who they are, they are just like a walking time capsule of the past. They just can't. They cannot move forward. Right. There are people who are really forgetful of the past, and there are people that feel like they live in the past.
Unidentified [00:28:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:31]:
And they just have collected with them all of these hurts in ways that they've been done unjustly, and they just keep them with them.
Unidentified [00:28:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:38]:
And you watch, that does sincerely take a mental toll on people. Like people who are grudge people.
Unidentified [00:28:46]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:48]:
It's not even just that you have the grudge. And that's the thing. It's like, it actually. It feels like it eats away.
Leslie Johnston [00:28:53]:
It like festers.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:54]:
It festers.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:55]:
Like, it changes your personality. It changes your awareness. It changes your ability to have joy. Like, and that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:02]:
That's the thing. Like, the.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:03]:
The idea that the enemy, you know, has a foothold. The enemy doesn't just, like, take a little foothold, and then he stays isolated in his one little place that you've given him. I think that what is unhealthy spreads.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:16]:
To all these other areas too.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:18]:
So it's a good reminder to go, oh, this is serious. Like, anger is a serious. I think we don't talk about it enough. We talk about a lot of other things. We talk about fear a lot. We talk about insecurity. But anger is something that the Bible is literally like, hey, that gives the devil a foothold in your life. And so if we can start taking anger seriously, and being very aware of it, I think that can be life changing for us and life changing for the people around us.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:48]:
Feels like anger to me. I was thinking about it, and I was like, okay. I feel like when I get angry, it's usually covering up a different emotion. Like, I present anger because it's easier to present anger as, like, a protective shield than being sad.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:08]:
Anger feels stronger. Sad feels weaker.
Unidentified [00:30:11]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:11]:
And. And even just that, like, anger is an easier emotion to feel than the sadness or the insecurity or whatever it is behind the anger. My sister and I just thought of this. She. She and I have this, like, funny dynamic where if the other one is doing something kind of stupid or, like, unsafe, instead of being like, hey, that's really unsafe. I don't want you to do that, because that scares me. It's like, anger comes out, it makes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:37]:
You mad, and you're so mad, you're.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:38]:
Like, why would you do that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:39]:
Like, yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:40]:
She'll be like, leslie, stop. Like, don't do that. Like, she's angry, and I get angry at her for when she puts, like, her life in danger because I'm like, oh, I'm getting angry because I care. But it's easier to be angry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:52]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:53]:
And express that emotion than to be like, oh, no, I'm scared.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:56]:
Which is funny.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:57]:
I wonder.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:57]:
I wonder how closely those are connected and maybe even how often anger is. We. We mislabel anger when it's actually fear. You know when you get, like, jump scared, Right. Like, someone jumps out from behind a thing or whatever and scares you, and your immediate response is like, rage scared you. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I think fear.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:17]:
Fear is a scarier, harder, deeper emotion to feel. And so sometimes I think that fear can become anger.
Unidentified [00:31:23]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:23]:
Really fast.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:24]:
Really fast. And it makes me think of, like, the angriest people in my life. When I think about it, I'm like, oh, I can see how there's fear under there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:33]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:34]:
The fear of, like, exposing, you know, your vulnerabilities. Your fear of exposing what's actually underneath.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:39]:
Being abandoned.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:40]:
Being abandoned.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:40]:
All of that loss.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:42]:
Totally.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:43]:
And it makes me rethink how I want to interact with people who do bring anger to the table first. Because I think a lot of times, like, hurt people. Hurt people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:55]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:55]:
And I mean, we're seeing that a lot right now, even just in the climate of the world. It's like, okay, someone hurt me, so I'm gonna hurt them back.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:04]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:04]:
It's like tit for tat, and I'm gonna. Then it doesn't matter. Like the slate is no longer like clean. So I'm just gonna do whatever I need to do to project anger back. But I'm like, if somebody who's the initiator of in their anger, they sin instead of going, oh, well, then I have free freedom to get back at them. It's like, oh, if I can think maybe what's underneath that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:31]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:32]:
It doesn't make me want to hurt them back.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:35]:
Realizing that someone's scared is. It's way easier to have sympathy for them.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:39]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:40]:
Than thinking that they're just mad for no reason. We don't have a lot of patience for people that get mad.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:46]:
No.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:46]:
Like when someone has road rage or when they fly out the handle and the line at the grocery store, at the DMV or something. Like it's, it' annoying to watch somebody else rage. You're just like, why?
Unidentified [00:32:57]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:58]:
But to, to think there might be fear underneath that somewhere makes me softer towards them.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:03]:
Yeah. Overwhelmed or like unhappy with themselves or.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:07]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:08]:
Like times where I've felt like o. I don't like where I'm at right now, like emotionally or whatever. I can find myself getting way more mad at other people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:18]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:18]:
And I'm like, why is that? But I'm like, oh, it's cuz you're seeing something in somebody else that you don't like that you see in yourself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:24]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:25]:
That's great. That's really good.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:27]:
I also been thinking recently, with all of the anger in the world that's happening right now with political stuff and conversations going bad and social media, I'm realizing I let myself get in the mud too often and I think if somebody is angry and they're trying to pull you down with them and maybe it's a friend, you know, who's trying to pull you down to whatever they're in or it's somebody you're engaging with that you disagree with. So you're angry and they're angry at you. I think if you visualize it like they're in the mud. Like they're like enjoying being in the anger in the mud. You can still talk with that person and still relate to them without getting in the mud with them. And I too often get hyped up. Like, if they're hyped up, I'm hyped up. Like, I'm like, oh, I'm meeting you where you're at anger wise.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:23]:
Because I want to like combat this. But I'm like, I don't have to do that because then at the end, like, I feel horrible. I'm like, this was not fun to be angry. I mean, we see that in relationships all the time.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:36]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:36]:
I think even Michael and I, we like, if.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:38]:
If he comes at me about something, I'm like, oh, I'm coming at you even higher, even more intense. And I did that literally this morning on the phone. And then afterwards I'm like, why did I do that? Like, I could stay on the outside and just like still interact, but not allow myself to get as worked up, you know, Totally interesting.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:58]:
I think that's why we have to get really pr. I think there actually is practical help in this, really practical for how you deal, how you deal with it once you feel it, because it can have really devastating results. Like there were these are some crazy stats actually. And this is why anger is to be taken seriously. And anger is a complex emotion. Very complex. Like way too complex for us to just, just slap the band aid on it of like, all right, feel it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:23]:
Deal it, don't be too slow, don't.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:26]:
Be too fast with it and move on.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:27]:
Like, no, there's actually some pretty crazy. There's some pretty crazy stuff that, that ex.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:34]:
Sorry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:35]:
Some pretty crazy stats about anger that make it. That make it. Make it clear that we have to, we have to treat this like it is a complex emotion that yields complex consequences. Because usually anger is really fueled by passion and a desire for justice. So in 2019, among homicides in which circumstances were known, so like we know why the homicide took place, 34.7% were precipitated by argument or conflict. So argument or conflict happens of some kind. Murder as the result.
Unidentified [00:36:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:09]:
Of female homicides by male intimate partners where no previous felony was involved, 58 of female homicides were attributed to arguments between the victim and the offender. So you've got these like, like crimes of passion where it's like so and so did this to so and so, and then in a rage, you kill the person you love. And then over a seven year period in the US there were 218 murders and 12, 000 injuries attributed to road rage. So it's like if we don't. Clearly this is like a. An un dealt with emotion, unhealthily dealt with emotion in our society, probably because it has been mislabeled or has been suppressed for a long period of time. And because anger is much fier than like worry or doubt or sadness or loneliness or happiness. Even because it's not mild, it can produce really not mild results too that are lasting and so it's important to get really practical about it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:14]:
I think one of the best ways that we can evaluate, like how to deal with your anger, though, is to see kind of what Jesus did with it. So usually people bring up the illustration of Jesus turning tables in the temple because he was upset that they were money changing in there and it was a place of worship and they were turning it into like a. Like a den for gross stuff.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:37]:
That's the typical one.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:38]:
People say a non typical One is Mark 3:1:6. Another time, Jesus went into the synagogue and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Because that was the law was you don't do anything on the Sabbath.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:57]:
Right?
Unidentified [00:37:58]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:58]:
Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, cake, stand up in front of everyone. Then Jesus asked them, which is lawful on the Sabbath? To do good or to do evil? To save life or to kill. But they remained silent. He looked around at them in anger and deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts and said to the man, stretch out your hand. He stretched it out and his hand was completely restored. Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus. So this is funny because Jesus is angry at these Pharisees because he's witnessing them take this law that he made.
Unidentified [00:38:37]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:37]:
Being God for human freedom and rest and flourishing. He's seeing them take this law that was meant for good.
Unidentified [00:38:45]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:38:46]:
And they're twisting it to make it, like, oppressive. Well, no, this person can't be healed because it's the Sabbath. You said the Sabbath was this, which is so gross to take something that God meant for good and to, like, put a little added pressure or like burden on it to where it can't be used for good. So he's defending the law of God. And then it says that when he heals the man, the shriveled man, the shriveled hand man, he actually does it in anger. So he feels anger.
Leslie Johnston [00:39:13]:
He's like, watch this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:14]:
But then he directs his healing.
Unidentified [00:39:17]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:18]:
Towards something good. And in his healing, he makes a move against evil, so he attacks evil. So righteous indignation towards something is really good. You just have to decide if it actually is righteous indignation.
Unidentified [00:39:36]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:36]:
And then once the anger moves through you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:38]:
This is a good. A good question.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:39]:
A good litmus test is the result.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:42]:
Of your anger also attacking something evil. So, like, attack is a Strong word. Maybe it's the wrong word, but for.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:50]:
Jesus, he felt it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:51]:
And then his response to the anger.
Morgan May Treuil [00:39:53]:
That he felt was to heal somebody. So how often do we feel anger? We bring it into our bodies because something really unjust has happened. And we have every right to feel angry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:05]:
Like, every right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:06]:
And we can't control it and we feel it.
Unidentified [00:40:08]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:09]:
But instead of, like, channeling that anger to attack something evil and do something good, we usually, like, take the anger that we feel and then inflict more harm with it because momentarily it feels good to make somebody else feel as angry as we feel.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:28]:
That's so good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:28]:
So I'm trying to think of, like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:29]:
Whatever the practical example of that is. And I'm sure there's plenty right now in our world.
Unidentified [00:40:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:35]:
The things that you see being done unjustly to people that you care about, feeling anger over that is unavoidable and actually a great thing because it should anger you when evil is being done.
Unidentified [00:40:48]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:50]:
But in your response.
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:52]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:40:52]:
What do you do with that?
Morgan May Treuil [00:40:53]:
Are you lashing online or are you making some kind of like an actual change towards.
Unidentified [00:41:03]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:04]:
Like, I wonder if God always gives us. If we look hard enough or we're aware of it. I wonder if there's always an avenue we can take our anger into sin or there's an avenue where we can actually take that anger and turn it into something good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:17]:
There has to be like.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:18]:
I think I've never thought about it that way, but next time I get angry, I'm gonna be like, okay, what's. There's probably two avenues.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:24]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:25]:
And I'll probably want to go down the. One of anger to sin. But what is the other anger to? What? You know, it makes me think about, like, even being in, like middle school, there was this kid that kept getting bullied. And I remember being like, so mad. Just watch. Because I had like a sibling that got bullied. So, like, I just had, like, I knew what it felt like on the other side of that. And watching somebody you love get bullied.
Morgan May Treuil [00:41:51]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:41:51]:
And I remember one time this dumb kid, like, came up to this guy who was getting bullied and. And I was standing there and he like, said something about his braces or something or his acne. I forget. So sad. And I remember I was so mad. Like, to me, when I get. The only time I get like, like blurry eyed mad, you know, like when your vision starts to go a little bit, like, blurry.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:14]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:14]:
That's only happened to me when someone is getting bullied or Something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:19]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:19]:
And I remember feeling that. And then I just, like, said something to the kid to defend the. The kid that was getting bullied. And then I remember the kid who was bullying him then starts bullying me. He's like, well, why don't you marry him? I'm like, oh, my gosh, this has.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:36]:
Gone a different direction on me.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:38]:
But it does make me think, like, even when we're little, we learn. I can either punch that bully in the face, which is sin.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:46]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:47]:
Or I can go and help the person that's hurting.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:50]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:50]:
Like, I just think there's always two options, no matter what our. What it is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:42:54]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:42:55]:
And so that's gonna make me think more of, like, when I get mad. Okay. What can I do? Okay, so say I'm mad at, like, a friend, and it's like, oh, they made me upset because they said this thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:05]:
Okay.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:05]:
I can either go gossip about them or speak poorly of them, or there's an opportunity there to go like, hey, I'll just do the right thing and go talk to them myself. I just think there's lots of opportunities totally. To channel your anger and actually have your anger produce something good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:24]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:24]:
Most of the good things in the world, like different clinics and different things that people have constructed, I'm sure came out of anger.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:33]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:33]:
Oh, yeah. Anger against something evil or unjust.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:36]:
And being like, I'm gonna make a change on this 100. If you can channel your anger, it's actually such a good thing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:42]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:42]:
Like, and if you consider yourself like an angry person, be like, stop beating yourself up about it and be like. Like, maybe this is just passion misused.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:51]:
That's quotable. That's very quotable.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:54]:
Like, passion.
Leslie Johnston [00:43:55]:
Channel this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:43:56]:
How do I channel this to something good? How do I take this and aim it at something?
Unidentified [00:43:59]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:00]:
That's going to be good.
Unidentified [00:44:01]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:02]:
And I think although passion and anger, like, those things can actually be good things.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:06]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:07]:
I do think if we address the emotions underneath it, kind of like we talked about earlier, I think you'll watch as your anger softens.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:15]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:44:15]:
And once we start dealing with some of the things that are underlying, I think our anger, which we're so afraid to because we don't want to uncover those things. I think once you do and you open that up, you'll find that your anger actually softens and your responses to things get way better.
Morgan May Treuil [00:44:31]:
There is a spiritual component to this, too, that has to be spiritual because it doesn't make any logical sense. And your dad was using this as an illustration Yesterday about him catching wind of someone saying some hurtful things about him at some point in his life. And he was so angry about it because it was unjust, unfair, not true. And he was kind of like, swarmed with anger on this drive, trying to figure out what to do with it. And then got this idea to call the person. Not necessarily to address what was being said, but to invite them to do this thing. Almost like, to prove them wrong on what they were saying, but, like, by kindly inviting them to come in and be a part of something. So he calls them, invites them to do this thing, and the end of the story is, like, he hung up and felt like, man, the full weight of my anger was lifted in me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:29]:
Just directly looking into, like, looking at that person and doing something kind for them.
Unidentified [00:45:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:35]:
That it also, like, kind of undid what they said. But I think that there's, like, a spiritual component to that too, of, like, they weren't called out or brought to justice, but it was like the posture of my heart changed because I changed how I dealt with them.
Unidentified [00:45:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:51]:
Instead of harboring this thing towards them in silence, I, like, spoke to them and invited them into something good.
Unidentified [00:45:57]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:45:57]:
And almost, like, made a repair for the relationship that I didn't have to make. And I think that that's. That's really. I don't know, like, that there has to be a spiritual component of that where you're like, someone does something unjust to you, says something about you, says something to you that was hurtful, and you take that, like, turn the other cheek motto, and instead of, like, getting retribution, you kind of just like, continue kindness.
Unidentified [00:46:25]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:25]:
And then something washes you as you do that, even though, like, justice wasn't served in the way that you thought it would be.
Unidentified [00:46:32]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:33]:
There's a.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:34]:
There's a. A close connection here between anger and then verse 29. Don't let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. No mistake that all of these are kind of clumped into the same passage. So clearly the anger issue is closely connected to the mouth issue and the.
Morgan May Treuil [00:46:58]:
Fact that our mouths are pretty uncontrollable and if left unattended, then they will.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:03]:
Be like a little spokesperson for anger. That doesn't do us any favors.
Unidentified [00:47:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:09]:
And so I wrote down some thoughts about. About just three things that I think would be good. And I hope. I hope that as people listen to this, they can take some of these practical things with them for their conversations. It says, don't let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up, so equipping according to their needs that it may benefit those who listen. So first thing I would say is maturity with your words includes a thoughtful assessment of what the person has the capacity to hear at that time. So, like, what does this person need right now? We've been in situations where it's like, man, it would be really good to talk to so and so about this thing. But then life doesn't agree with that timing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:47:59]:
Like, right now, what they don't need.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:01]:
Is to be called out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:02]:
What they do need is actually, like, love and encouragement. So maturity with your words is what does this person have the capacity to hear right now from me? And that's thoughtful pausing to evaluate.
Unidentified [00:48:14]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:15]:
Number two, maturity with your words includes gentleness. Gentleness is not like meekness, where you're like, sorry. Gentleness and meekness are both great things, but gentleness is not the stereotypical, like, I speak softly.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:30]:
I don't stand for anything.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:32]:
I'm mousy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:33]:
Like, that's actually not what biblical gentleness looks like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:48:36]:
Gentleness is actually a strength. It involves humility, compassion, and tenderness. So maturity with your words is gentle, but then lastly.
Leslie Johnston [00:48:46]:
And gentleness is actually speaking probably truth, but knowing how to do it in a gentle way. Because you're not. Someone's not gentle if they never touch something. Like, I think about a kid going and reaching. Like, they try to pet rider all the time. And their parents are always like, gentle. But gentle is not like, oh, I just never say anything and never touch anything.
Unidentified [00:49:06]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:07]:
It's like, it's the act of how you do that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:09]:
How.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:10]:
So that's tone.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:13]:
A compliment sandwich. Like, these are all things that genuinely do.
Unidentified [00:49:16]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:17]:
Your house.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:18]:
Like a gentleness is an action.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:19]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:49:20]:
Like, there has to be action involved in your gentleness so you can still do something, but it's how you do it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:24]:
Yeah. Gentleness is not doing nothing.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:26]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:27]:
And then this third one mostly speaks to me because I feel like I'm this way. Maturity with your words does not mean that you people please tickle people's ears, only giving them, like, niceties that don't actually equip them or build them up because that's the goal. Like, your words should be.
Morgan May Treuil [00:49:45]:
Be wholesome and they should build each other up. And people deserve to have a good foundation. So just telling people what they want to hear all the time actually Isn't using. That isn't gentle. That isn't like using your words to do well.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:01]:
That's not. That's the opposite of helpful.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:03]:
So I feel like those are like three, like, practical things for your words. I love that as it relates to anger. And all of those things require the time to think through what you're saying and gave you enough space to decide.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:17]:
Whether or not you'll fly off the handle.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:19]:
That's really good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:20]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:21]:
Those are some great.
Unidentified [00:50:22]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:22]:
One more thing too. This. Sorry, this is. This is. This is just two. Two more practical things.
Leslie Johnston [00:50:28]:
It.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:28]:
It addresses anger again at the bottom of the passage. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. So get rid of it. So bitterness would be like what we.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:40]:
Talked about the beginning, where it's anger held on to for too long.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:44]:
It's anger that moves too slow.
Unidentified [00:50:46]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:46]:
Rage and anger. That translation would be more close, like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:50]:
To, like an outburst, a lashing out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:52]:
Of, flying off the handle. So that's anger that moves too fast. So anger can't move too slow, but.
Morgan May Treuil [00:50:58]:
It also can't move too fast.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:00]:
And then along with every form of malice. Sorry, brawling and slander, which is like.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:07]:
Like physical.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:09]:
The physical nature of anger and also the verbal nature of anger, which we just talked about.
Unidentified [00:51:13]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:13]:
And then every form of malice, like, that's like anger being done, anger being, like, released, but like, with the intention of evil doing. So this is put off all of those things.
Unidentified [00:51:23]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:25]:
Timothy Keller describes these two steps for dealing with your anger. Number one, what am I defending? Number two, what am I attacking? Defending should be. I'm defending someone or something that is being dealt unjustly.
Unidentified [00:51:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:39]:
I have to decide if that's actually happening. Number two, what am I attacking? I should be attacking something that's evil with my anger response.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:46]:
Wants.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:47]:
And then last but not least, the conclusion. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ, God forgave you so you don't have to take control of your emotions.
Morgan May Treuil [00:51:58]:
You could live life completely out of.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:01]:
Control of your emotions. But it's because of the forgiveness that we've received because of Jesus that we aim to put on these good things and to put off the other things because we have been forgiven and we have been dealt with kindly when what we deserved was God's anger. So it's.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:20]:
It's like. It's two things.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:23]:
It's a, this is what God's done for you, and God's a very personal God. And he's grieved when we disobey him. So, like, be angry, but don't sin because you love God. But also be angry and don't sin.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:38]:
Because it's actually through your actions that other people see God, what he's like, what he's not like.
Unidentified [00:52:47]:
Yep.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:48]:
And you have a chance to be missional with how you deal with your anger too, you know?
Leslie Johnston [00:52:54]:
That's so good. Those are great practical steps to take.
Morgan May Treuil [00:52:57]:
Yeah, I think so too.
Leslie Johnston [00:52:59]:
Okay. How can I be more thoughtful in how I react and how can I be more Christ like, but without sacrificing, you know, your convictions?
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:08]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:09]:
And there's so much good that can come from that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:11]:
The beauty of steps is that it slows you down.
Unidentified [00:53:13]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:14]:
So if, like, if you have steps and you have questions, it helps slow down.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:18]:
That's so good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:19]:
Same thing's true for your words.
Unidentified [00:53:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:20]:
Our words should have steps to them that make us be like, pause. Do I want to say that? Should I say that? No, I shouldn't say that. I should say this instead. We don't do enough pause, so we have to figure that out.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:33]:
But not pausing enough.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:34]:
Not pausing.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:34]:
I love it. Well, this is awesome. I feel convicted and I feel excited.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:40]:
I know, Me too.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:41]:
And yeah, this was such a good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:45]:
Conversation and very relevant to today.
Leslie Johnston [00:53:47]:
Very extremely. Because it's relevant for me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:49]:
Today is very today and where the.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:51]:
World is very angry.
Unidentified [00:53:52]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:53:53]:
So, yeah, that. Yeah, I think this is. This is like a perfect time to talk about it. It feels like a really well timed passage for our church too.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:00]:
Yes, I know.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:01]:
So.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:02]:
Well, we hope you guys enjoyed this episode in our new studio will be in here. So we got some photo to put in. So.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:10]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:10]:
Maybe we'll grab some Polaroids or something fun.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:13]:
Some Polaroids.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:14]:
Yep. We love you guys and we will see you next week.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:17]:
Next week.
Leslie Johnston [00:54:18]:
Bye.
Morgan May Treuil [00:54:18]:
Bye.