Morgan May Treuil [00:00:01]:
Welcome back to Am I Doing this Right? We are your hosts, Morgan and Leslie, and we are so happy that you are choosing to tune into Am I Doing this right? Make sure if you have not already, that whichever platform you're watching us on, whether it's Spotify or Apple Music or Apple Podcasts, make sure that you hit the subscribe button. Make sure that you leave us a rating because that helps other people stumble upon this podcast and to stay up to date on all things Am I Doing this right? Follow us on Instagram. I doing this right so that you can hang out with us online. We would love that.
Leslie Johnston [00:00:33]:
That's right.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:34]:
How was your day so far?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:35]:
Good. I got up at 5, 5 in the morning to get on a plane to come back home.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:42]:
Where you were in Palm Springs?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:43]:
We were in, yeah, Mexico and then Palm Springs, seeing some awesome stuff with like a missions trip that we do down in Mexico and then flew out early, early, early this morning.
Morgan May Treuil [00:00:54]:
Oh my gosh. How early was the flight?
Leslie Johnston [00:00:56]:
It was at 7, but it takes like a long time to get to the airport. And waking up early like that, just nothing worse.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:03]:
Nothing's worse.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:04]:
Nothing's worse. Actually, there's a lot lot that's worse. But I would rather. Oh, this could be an unpopular opinion. I would rather cut my vacation a day short than have to take an early flight.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:17]:
Seriously?
Leslie Johnston [00:01:18]:
Yep. I would way rather fly in late that night, get to the place than have to get up at like 5 in the morning. I don't want to start a vacation on a bad note.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:29]:
Wait, so you're saying it like it takes away the fun and the rest of vacation?
Leslie Johnston [00:01:34]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:35]:
When you have to get up early.
Leslie Johnston [00:01:36]:
For a flight, then you dread your vacation because you're like, I have to get up so early.
Morgan May Treuil [00:01:40]:
Are you talking about the front end of the vacation or the back end of the vacation?
Leslie Johnston [00:01:43]:
It's more important to me on the front end of the vacation. The end of the vacation, I still would like to take a later flight. And it's not like I sleep in till 10. Like I'm up at usually 6, 45, 7 every day. But if I have to get up before six, it throws off my whole day.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:00]:
I get that at the front end. At the back end, I'm like, I will do anything to get another full day of vacation in. So I will easily sleep and then wake up super early and catch an early flight to get out. But that's only on the back end of vacation.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:14]:
Yeah, beginning, end. Because then you're like, oh, I have a Few days that then I have to readjust and yes. Especially if you're going to like Europe or someplace where the time change is extreme.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:25]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:26]:
To me, if I get in in the morning, you have to live that whole day.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:30]:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:31]:
When we took our honeymoon to Italy, I remember feeling so not stressed but just like whoa. Because we got on a plane early in the morning and we over the course of our whole flight, like both, both legs and the connection. We were flying for a full day basically. And then you land in the morning time of the next day and so you're just like, I've been up for so long. And then you feel dead.
Leslie Johnston [00:02:57]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:02:58]:
And you feel kind of sick and gross, kind of jet lagged and you're just like, you have to recover. It's not fun.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:03]:
But then everyone's like, let's go out on the town. We're exploring and sightseeing and you just don't want to, you want to go to bed.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:10]:
The only argument I would make for wanting a super early flight is I. If you get flying anxiety, I always feel like taking a super early flight is nice because there's a high chance you'll be able to go back to sleep on a super early flight and then miss most of your flight because you're asleep.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:26]:
Or you take a late flight and.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:28]:
Then you sleep at night.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:29]:
Sleep. Cuz you're supposed to be asleep.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:30]:
I'm fine with that too. But then you had so much day ahead of you where you could have eaten all these foods that don't agree with you. You could have done all these different things. So I don't know about that potential food.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:40]:
Food poisoning.
Morgan May Treuil [00:03:41]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:03:41]:
I also think here's my other unpopular opinion with traveling like on a plane. I don't think you should legally be able to close the window. Like pull the shade down over the window if there's other people in your row. Because I like to sit on the aisle, but I like to see outside.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:02]:
You give up that privilege.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:04]:
No, it should be open for everybody. That there shouldn't be the option to close it. I just want to be open because today I sat down on my flight and I was on the aisle and there was no window to the left, which I was like, it just was a wall. Like it must, there must be something in there.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:22]:
Yeah, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:23]:
No window. And then I looked to my right and the girl like we're about to take off and she just shuts. Now I'm just in this tin can with no, no ability to stay outside. And we Took off. And this, like, this was one of the bumpiest flights I've ever experienced. Taking off. And we're like. Because in Palm Springs, you take off and you're going, like, straight above the mountain.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:46]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:46]:
And so it's. It was. It was crazy. People were, like, freaking out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:04:50]:
The girl next to me was about.
Leslie Johnston [00:04:51]:
To have a panic attack. I could tell she was, like, taking off her sweatshirt, and she's like, all the signs. So then I, like, lean over. She doesn't have headphones in, which I'm like, what are you doing?
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:00]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:01]:
And I'm like, oh, it's. It's always like this. Don't worry. Even though.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:04]:
Oh, it's probably not always like this. That's so sweet.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:07]:
And she was like, what is happening?
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:09]:
Wait, that's really sweet that you said that. Also, this is random. I don't usually fly United, so I had never heard this before. And they don't say this on Delta or Southwest, but for United, they tell you during takeoff and landing that they recommend that you keep the. If you're in an exit row, they recommend keeping the windows pulled up during takeoff and landing. Yeah, in an exit row.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:34]:
Must have the same.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:35]:
About that. But I'm like, why? But, like, specifically for an exit row, I wonder what that is. Why do they want you to be able to see during takeoff and landing if you're in an exit row through the windows?
Leslie Johnston [00:05:46]:
Probably because if you crash, you have to, like, be able to see, like, oh, yeah, we're on the ground. We got to open this thing up.
Morgan May Treuil [00:05:53]:
I've just never heard that before. And I was like, wow, that is bizarre. Anyways, not.
Leslie Johnston [00:05:58]:
I agree with that rule. They should make that flight wide.
Morgan May Treuil [00:06:00]:
Yes, we'll see it. Okay, so we had this fun idea today as we're going into summertime, sort of. Right. Like, we're not fully in summertime yet, but we're nearing summertime. And summertime is known for getting lots of rest and getting vacation time and getting some. It's a totally different pace of life, totally different rhythms of life. And so we had the idea, probably helpful for both of us and then helpful for listeners talking about self care. And you had a really cool take on this that I'm excited for you to share.
Leslie Johnston [00:06:35]:
Oh, yeah. Well, I think. I don't know if anybody else feels this way or if you feel this way, but I feel like the last few weeks, like, everybody is tired and they're worn out, and it may be the season that we're all in right now. Just. It's a big work season and then with Easter coming up, this, this will be posted right after Easter. But I just feel like it's, it's a crazy season of a lot of different things. And so I think you're right. I think this is like perfect timing for an episode like this.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:06]:
But. Okay. When we first talked about doing self care, there is a part of me that kind of like rolls my eyes because I'm so. I grew up in a home that was like, I mean we, we did self care but like when self care was talked about so much, it was like I came from a home of like really hardworking people. And so to me sometimes self care seems like, oh, this is just, it's fluffy. Like, it's like, oh, I'm gonna go do my face mask and I'm not gonna care about anybody else but myself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:07:34]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:07:35]:
And so, but as we were talking about it, we're like, oh, self care doesn't have to be like indulgence. Self care is actually maintenance and if you don't take care of things that need maintaining, then you find yourself in a really bad spot. So that's kind of the lens of what we're looking for in this episode. Looking through self care is like, this is not indulgence or being like, I'm just going to be super selfish. No, it's like we have to do self care because we have to maintain ourselves. Because if we don't maintain ourselves, we all know where we end up when we don't do that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:10]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:11]:
So I think it's a weird phenomenon in the Christian church and Christian circles because there's fruits of the spirit and things that you would think that Christians have as a part of their, you know, like their default personality setting. And I think it's funny for a, for a faith that has this big pillar of like Sabbath rest being a huge part of what you're called to do.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:38]:
And what you're responsible for doing in your life. It's also culturally something that can be viewed as like, well, if you take time for yourself, then that's very self. Self absorbed, self focus focused, slothful, not hard working enough. Not servant hearted enough.
Leslie Johnston [00:08:55]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:08:56]:
And so I think it gets this. I think people have a little bit of like a complex surrounding rest.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:00]:
Totally.
Morgan May Treuil [00:09:01]:
And self care because they're torn between this, this like these two sides of. Okay, well this is something that I'm actually called to do because it's healthy for me and because this is part of the way that God designed for the world to function. And at the same time, I don't want to be somebody who's all about me and not for serving other people or like, you know, being exhausted for the sake of other people. There are times when you're also called to do that too totally well.
Leslie Johnston [00:09:26]:
And there's, there's people that we know and we've all been through this too. Of the times of your life that you've had the least amount to do and you have been a little more self absorbed, are not the best times in your life sometimes, like the best times in your life can be when you, you've got a full plate, you're doing a lot, you're serving a lot and that can be some of the best times. So I had like, I've had friends before who are like, I feel so burnt out, but they're not really doing anything. And so I think there's the, I think it's this like pendulum where it's like it's swinging and you're like, okay, if I get too far this way. Both, both sides. Being a workaholic and being lazy. Or like the word you, you use. Slothful.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:09]:
Slothful.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:10]:
Because that's like very slothy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:12]:
Because that's what they, that's what the Bible warns against. Like don't be slothful.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:15]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:16]:
And so it's like either side is not good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:18]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:18]:
So it's like what is that? Maintaining of like good self care. And yeah, you're right, the bible is like very clear about taking a day of rest. Like that's super important.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:27]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:27]:
And so, but I'm curious what for you, if you were to pick one thing that you're like, this is such a nice self care, like almost like an embarrassing thing that brings you joy, that makes you just fully relax.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:45]:
I don't think this is embarrassing, but I love massage.
Leslie Johnston [00:10:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:10:50]:
To me there is nothing more relaxing than massage. And I think, I think the reason for it is because maybe what's embarrassing is how often I spend money on doing that or, or the, the places that I'll go to get massage. When you're like, man, you probably shouldn't go in that place. Like go in some like really sketchy spots to get massages. Yep. But you do that too. I feel like I was introduced to that by you. The time that I, that Leslie and I, it was during COVID or something and you're like, let's go get massages.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:21]:
And we go to this place and it's like in a strip center. It's dark, it's dingy. They make you poke your face through a paper towel. And I'm like, where are we right now?
Leslie Johnston [00:11:28]:
You're, like, fully clothed in a room with other people.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:31]:
I know. I was like, this is not what I thought, but that's a more affordable way to do it.
Leslie Johnston [00:11:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:11:35]:
But to me, I'm like, I think it's so hard for my brain and the way that it works to turn off and to relax that I almost need a physical reset in order to have a mental reset. Like, I almost need to be forced into slowing my heart rate and like, releasing tension from muscles. It's almost like it has to start externally before it will move internally. And I'll find myself, like, in the, you know, let's say that a massage is like 45 minutes to an hour or something. It's like, I won't really feel mentally relaxed until the last 15 minutes. It takes me that long to get mentally relaxed. And so I think that's probably the thing that I love doing. What's embarrassing is probably where I will go to.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:16]:
To get that. To get that kind of treatment. But that for me, what was would yours be?
Leslie Johnston [00:12:22]:
I asked that and I'm like, I actually don't know what mine would be. I really actually, I love like on a Saturday morning or something to drive 30 minutes to my favorite donut shop and get a few different donuts and eat them and drive home.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:41]:
That is.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:41]:
I really do love that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:43]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:12:45]:
Yeah. I mean, I'm a big skincare person every night. I enjoy, like, putting on the different oils and things. Like, I really do love that. Yeah, that's. I guess that's. That's like a classic self care.
Morgan May Treuil [00:12:59]:
Here's what I like about that kind of self care. And this, this to me is a question. I'm curious what you think about this. Do you think there's good forms of self care and bad forms of self care? Like, for example, to me, I would say having a skincare routine that you follow on a daily, weekly basis, that's relaxing and it's also good for you. That's a great form of self care. But there's a movement right now about like taking full days and couch rotting, where you sit on the couch and you sit in the same spot every single, like every single minute of the day. And you watch, you know, all kinds of trash tv, like your brain rotting, basically.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:34]:
And people would say this is a good form of self care. And I'm like, I actually don't know if that yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:39]:
Is actually good, is actually a good.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:41]:
Form of self care.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:42]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:13:42]:
I guess the question and, and, and then I think that opens up the door of what feels like overindulgent, selfish self care and then what feels like productive, rehabilitative kind of self care. Cuz I don't know if I would do well with a whole day of couch rotting.
Leslie Johnston [00:13:58]:
I know. I feel like a couch rotting day is meant for like if you're going to bring friends, like I've wanted to do that and be like everybody just come on over and we're all going to sit here and watch this show.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:10]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:10]:
But it's order crumble cookies. But it's communal.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:13]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:13]:
Then I think you feel good afterwards.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:14]:
Yeah, yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:16]:
I, I, I don't know. I think the negative side of self care when I think of it is when like I'm not following through on the things I've committed to or the people that are counting on me or my job because I just don't want to do it or like I'm escaping something. I think a lot of people will escape something in the name of self care because they don't want to deal with it. And that's where I find myself. Like I'm really quick to be like do you ever have like a day at work or a day that you're looking at that's coming up and you really don't want to do it and you're like man, this would be a great time for a cold to come through.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:53]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:54]:
Like I actually would love to be able to get out of this.
Morgan May Treuil [00:14:56]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:14:57]:
Or like oh, I'm just so tired. Like I shouldn't, I shouldn't do it. And I think sometimes there are times when, when you need to cancel something.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:04]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:05]:
But I just don't know what that balance is because to be honest, I would love to get out of a bunch of different things and I'm like, well if I happen to get out of. Oh, am I feeling a fever?
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:13]:
Do you, I, I have a hard time with the idea that it's ever okay to cancel a commitment in the name of self care. Well, let's, let's say this, like take work off the table because I don't feel like if you have a job, you're getting paid to do a job. It's like okay, yes, you might need if you're physically ill, of course, like take care, take your body, all those things. But if you're like ah, just mentally. I'm not, you know, I'm not, I can't meet this deadline because I'm just, you know, I don't know. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Because you're getting paid to do a job. You've got responsibilities.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:45]:
The deadlines are not going to, you know, just disappear.
Leslie Johnston [00:15:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:15:48]:
But then do you think it's okay in the name of self care and like, mental health or whatever, to cancel friend hangouts or other things that you've had on the calendar? And what's the balance to that?
Leslie Johnston [00:16:02]:
Yeah, I think it's okay to do that if. Okay. So something that I read recently that I really liked was if you're gonna say no to people, like, whether it's a community thing or a work thing or whatever, mostly community or family or friends, is that communicating? Like, no, I'm not gonna come to this. But not just like, no, I need my space. I need my, like, my boundaries or whatever, because then people are just gonna be like, yeah, but if you're saying, hey, actually, I can't come to that because I really want to hang out with you guys on Friday. And if I don't get this other stuff done or if I don't rest, then I really want to be able to be there, present for you guys this other time. I think that's a great way to communicate it and not make the people feel like they're somehow like a burden to you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:16:51]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:16:51]:
Like, to be honest, most of our friends are actually really enjoyable to be around, and I feel better after being around. So some of it's like, maybe look at your friends. But I think communicating in a way of like, hey, I want to show up later for you. So I'm saying no to this because I have to do that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:09]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:10]:
So for all the girls that are listening to this that have. They're paralyzed to say no to things because they're worried about being selfish or not showing up for their friends when they need it. They, like, they will not say no to things in life to the point where it's like, to their detriment, where they're suffering now because they are not taking any time for themselves.
Leslie Johnston [00:17:30]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:17:31]:
What do you. What's the advice that you give? Like, what's the thing that you've either heard in your past or that you're thinking that would set somebody free from that? Because we, I think especially as women, we get into this habit of I have to be the one to do it all, to show up in all the right places. And I feel a intense responsibility to honor my commitments, which I think is a really great trait. But then sometimes I do think that women feel this insane pressure to be everywhere and to continue to perform and to pour out to the point where it starts to affect their physical and mental health because they have no rest and they don't feel like they can have rest. Yeah, like, what's the thing that would set somebody free from that kind of pressure?
Leslie Johnston [00:18:16]:
Well, I feel like backing up is first, like, what are your priorities in life? Like, even writing them down, like, hey, is it. Maybe it's your family first? And then it, well, obviously should be your relationship with God first. Like, what does that look like? Because if that's dry and not being attended to, you are gonna feel like you're pushing a rock uphill in your life. You need, like, the hope and inspiration from God to be able to, I think, live your. Your best. So it's like taking priority of like, okay, if I'm actually physically writing down, okay, my relationship with God is first, okay, my family, okay, Then friendships, then work, or however you wanna prioritize it, Everybody's totally different. And then almost going like, okay, what things have I not attended to? Or what things should I give my best to? And then. And then it trickles down the list.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:08]:
And so then sometimes the most urgent things take priority when the priority should take priority. Yeah, it's really good. And so that's one thing before we get to your question, but then also, are you prioritizing your rest time when you actually have it, or are you couch rotting, TikTok scrolling? You're not even taking care of yourself in the time that you actually have during the day to take care of yourself. But then everybody else gets your leftover and you kind of go, well, yeah, sorry guys, I can't hang out with you or like, say your spouse. You're like, yeah, I don't, like, I don't have time to do like, whatever.
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:48]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:48]:
Or I just need like time by myself. And it's like, but are you actually using the time by yourself to really rejuvenate you, or are you draining yourself and then you have no time for anybody?
Morgan May Treuil [00:19:57]:
Yeah, that's a really good question.
Leslie Johnston [00:19:59]:
Some of it's like taking stock of that, how you're spending your time. Yeah, but if you've done all those things, I think knowing, like, people will love you, we, we think people's love for us is so conditional on what.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:13]:
We do for them.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:14]:
On what we do for them. And I think a lot of people are actually much more gracious and graceful towards you than you are to yourself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:21]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:22]:
So I think reminding yourself of that and that God, like, if you really feel like, oh, I need to take this time for myself, or I don't want to, I can't go on that trip, or I can't do this thing, I think you have to trust, like, God's got, like, your relationships and your friendships. Like, he's not. It's not like one time you say no and everybody hates you.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:42]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:20:42]:
Like, I just think. Yeah, we just need to, like, understand that people have a lot more grace for us.
Morgan May Treuil [00:20:47]:
I really like that because I am one of those people that struggles a little bit with that. That thought that if I don't say yes to everybody, then people aren't going to love me anymore. Which is funny, because it's like, yeah, none of my friends love me because of what I do for them. They all love me because they just love me.
Leslie Johnston [00:21:02]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:03]:
And then I. What I do for them is like a. Like an added bonus. Right. But I do like the method of organizing in your brain priorities. And it's not that it's, like, set in stone to the. Where, you know, certain things won't jump up in priorities at different times. You know, like, it might be that.
Morgan May Treuil [00:21:23]:
Yeah, it's like, goes your relationship with God, if you're married, it goes relationship with your spouse. Then after that, maybe it goes job, maybe it goes friends, however you choose to prioritize. But it could be that, like, you have a friend who's going through. Going through something really hard for a certain season of life, and it's like they jump up to the top, and that's okay because you maintain balance in all the other regular weeks of the month or the year. But I. I don't. I don't know if I. I've never thought about this in this context, but Wes Davis, who we've had in the podcast, has this Leadership Pipeline document, and if you remember this, it has this little segment where you kind of, like, you organize your life and your tasks into quadrants, but they're all different kinds of quadrants.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:07]:
So the categories would be like, urgent and important. That's category one.
Leslie Johnston [00:22:12]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:12]:
Then the second category is urgent but not important, because there's certain things that, like, get done, but they're not important to your, like, soul being health. You know, it's like, I have to pay this bill because it's urgent and I have to. But it's not, like, the most important thing in my life. So there's urgent and important. There's urgent and not important. There's important but not urgent meaning like, it has time. I don't have to do it immediately, but this is important. And then there's not urgent, not important.
Morgan May Treuil [00:22:44]:
And I love that system for work because it helps me put everything out there on paper and be like, okay, what do I need to do today? And in what order do I do them? But if you were to do this with life and relationships and responsibilities outside of work, this would probably help people organize their. I remember one time being so stressed because I had committed to coming over and hanging out with some girls at someone's house, and we were going to do some kind of a fun girl thing, and we had totally planned it, like, weeks in advance. I had already committed to it. And then Benji had been gone for a while. He gets back into town, and I just didn't schedule it thinking about the fact that he had been out of town and he had gotten back into town. And then we have this big fight right before I'm about to leave. And everything in my brain is like, you have to stay here and tend to your relationship. First.
Morgan May Treuil [00:23:36]:
He has not been in town. But then everything in my, like, people pleaser, you know, not rest, need to strive mode is like, no, you made a commitment and your friends want you to be here. And I remember calling Christy and being like, I just need someone to give me permission. Permission to prioritize the right thing and to not feel immense amounts of guilt over it. And so I. And she was like, oh, you have to put your marriage first.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:00]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:01]:
Like, it's not even a question.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:02]:
Totally.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:02]:
And it was that. It was that first. It was that. That statement alone, that I was like, okay, then I can do this. It's like, I think we have to give ourselves permission to prioritize the things that have to get prioritized, even if that means that something else has to fall below for a second.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:18]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:19]:
But it won't always stay below. Like, life is so long. It's short and it's long.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:24]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:24]:
So it's like, we always think, oh, if I choose to prioritize this in this moment, that I'm never going to get to prioritize that. And that's not necessarily true. It all ebbs and flows.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:33]:
I know we were just talking. I think you were in this conversation, but we were talking with someone who had just gone to Australia and they came back and they were like, it's so different over there. Like, they don't call it work life balance. They call it life work balance. And I Was like, what do you, what do you mean by that? And they're like, creative, Creative.
Morgan May Treuil [00:24:53]:
Just switch it around.
Leslie Johnston [00:24:54]:
And they're like, no, no, people don't work there to be like, okay, work is my life and I'm gonna make my life fit into my work. Like, I'm gonna work super hard. Like in, in the U.S. it's like, it's like you get a badge of honor for being the busiest. And like, oh, if you're a workaholic, then it's like, oh, this is like put up you on a pedestal. Like, oh, yeah, you're a workaholic. That's so awesome. Yeah, but they're like, in Australia, if you say like, oh, how are you doing? Like, our response a lot of times is like, so busy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:27]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:28]:
They would be like, oh, I'm sorry, that's terrible.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:31]:
It's like, not an impressive.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:32]:
It's not an impressive thing. They're like, oh, you're like, so busy with work that you don't have time for your life. Like, that doesn't make any sense.
Morgan May Treuil [00:25:39]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:25:39]:
And it just like, that has not been out of my, Gone out of my brain recently because I'm like, like, man, it's so true. Like, we, we hold ourselves to these, like, pedestals of like, being the busiest. Hard working. I just have no time for anything. And that's like a good thing. But my dad would always say, because he's like a really busy, hard working guy.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:01]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:01]:
But he was, he had like the realization a few years back where he's like, at the end of my, like, work life, he's like, work disappears. If I quit my job today or I was let go or I was moved on, whatever. He's like, they would forget about me.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:18]:
Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:18]:
You would not have your work. But like, what you do have is like, your family, your friends, your relationships. And those are the things that actually last till the very end. But so often we live in this state of like, work is first I have to prioritize this. And this is above everything else. And all my attention goes to this when, like, what happens then? If that falls out.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:40]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:41]:
And. And then what are you left with if your relationships aren't tended to?
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:45]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:46]:
So I think that's something that recently I've been going like, oh, how do I, like, rewire my brain not to not care about work? Obviously. Like, I think we're meant to work. I think we're designed to work. I think there's so many good things that come.
Morgan May Treuil [00:26:59]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:26:59]:
From our jobs and a lot of, like, purpose and things that we were meant to do, but I don't think it was ever meant to be first.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:06]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:07]:
And so I just have been thinking. I've. I'm like, haven't come to any conclusions, but I'm like, how can I put. How can I still care about work but also care more about, like, what else God has in my life, you know?
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:21]:
Yeah. I think that's a really important point. And it kind of broaches on the identity topic a little bit because we tend to invest the most time into what we think will yield us the most in return.
Leslie Johnston [00:27:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:27:35]:
And I remember a season where it was, you know, I didn't have Benji, and I had good friends, but there wasn't a ton of friends like we have now. And it felt like all that I had was work. So it kind of felt like I was measured by my ability to work and be good at work. That was the thing that I had going on in my life. And so I did that, and I did that all the time. And it felt like my highs and my lows were all associated with how well I was doing at work. Right. And I think that we get into this dangerous spot that we don't know is dangerous until it hits us square in the face, where if you go all in on something and you don't prioritize rest at all in that thing, you will eventually, not at first, you will eventually reach this point of burnout and destruction that is really harmful and that you have to spend a lot of time coming back from.
Morgan May Treuil [00:28:31]:
But I think the problem for people is how long it takes them to get there. So I think at first, you know, you get used to the hustle. You're addicted to the pace of it. You're getting a lot of affirmation and even just like, self validation from what you're doing, which makes it really easy to keep going and to say yes to every meeting and say yes to every extra opportunity. You're never saying no. You're never taking time for yourself. And you're kind of under this guise of like, well, I'll sleep when I'm dead, or I'll sleep when it's summer, or I'll do this, whatever. You keep pushing it down the line, and then you get really good at being busy, and you get really good at operating on little to no sleep or little to no friend time or whatever your thing is.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:13]:
And it's like a drug. Like you're, you're. You're getting fueled by fumes. Right. But you're not actually being fueled by something that's lasting or sustaining.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:21]:
And then you wind up really ill, really sick, really burned out. Really burned for a million different reasons. But I think the important kind of, like, reality check for all of us is an inability to rest is sort of like this pride, God complex in which we are teaching ourselves that we can do this on our own.
Leslie Johnston [00:29:42]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:29:42]:
I can do this by myself. I can do this by, you know, the skin of my teeth. I can grin and bear it. I can make this happen on my own. And that's the way that my life works. That's what a life of no rest is like. Now, it doesn't look like that at face value. Like, you wouldn't actually say that about your life of no rest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:01]:
You would just say, oh, I'm really busy. But what's underneath that is I'm committed to a life in which I make things happen on my own. I do not spend time to go away and be with God or be with people. Therefore, I have trained myself that me, myself, and I can do this. And that's a really dangerous place to end up. Because you are human. You're not treating yourself like a human, but you are a human, and your humanity is always going to run out. So it's like living a life of all work, no rest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:30]:
You will eventually end up at a place where you have no work.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:35]:
Because you never rested.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:37]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:37]:
And you. You kind of come to a place of, like, self ruin. So I. I think that there's, like, a big reality check in that of. Yeah. Asking yourself the pride question.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:47]:
Totally.
Morgan May Treuil [00:30:47]:
Are you relying too much on yourself?
Leslie Johnston [00:30:49]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:30:50]:
Because you want to be able to look back on your life and. And say, oh, my gosh, God came through on so many different things. And I know that wasn't me. It's like that humility that gets instilled in you when you actually do rest and trust in God.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:02]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:03]:
It was interesting. I. I had the realization that a lot of people have different. What would you call it? Like, different abilities to carry more stuff.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:15]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:31:16]:
Like, different capacities.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:17]:
Capacities. That's what I'm looking for. Like, what is that? Because the other day I was talking to my sister Christy, and there was someone online or something. It's probably, like, an influence or something. They were like, oh, my gosh. You know, like, when people list, like, what they have to do for that day or something, and they're, like, so exhausted. I have this and this and this. And it was like, three things that I was like, that's easy.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:38]:
Like, I wish that that was the load or whatever. I could do that in five minutes. And I was, like, complaining to Christy. I'm like, this is so crazy. Like, people are so lazy. Like, they. That's gonna be exhausting. And which I thought normally she would get on board with me, but she's like, do you realize that, like, some people have different capacities, though? Like, some people.
Leslie Johnston [00:31:59]:
That is their capacity.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:00]:
Right?
Leslie Johnston [00:32:00]:
And I'm like, no, they're just. It's just lazy. Like, it's not actually doing it. And she's like, no, I genuinely think certain people have different capacities for other people. And it really made me think, like, oh, my gosh, you're so right. Like, I look at my dad. He can work all day long, come home, have capacity for everybody, great attitude, whatever. Like, so much fun if we're having, like, a family dinner or something.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:24]:
And there's days when I go to work and I come home, and I'm like, I'm so exhausted. And I'm like, oh, his capacity is just bigger than mine. Yeah, but sometimes we. We compare ourselves first to people who have less capacity.
Morgan May Treuil [00:32:37]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:32:38]:
Or we're maybe, like, married to some, or we're friends with some, and we tend to look down on other people because we're like, oh, well, they're there. And you label them instead of just being like, hey, that person might have a different capacity than you. Like, my boyfriend Michael, he loves time by himself. I could spend every night with people, and this would be. That'd be the greatest life in the world. But we were talking, and I'm like, oh, you just have a very. Now he's really hardworking, But I'm like, oh, you're like, you actually need that time by yourself to function at your best. I may not need that much time, but we're just different.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:12]:
Like, it's like, we don't have to compare ourselves in a negative way to other people, and we don't have to also compare ourselves to people whose capacity is way bigger. Like, it can be a personality thing, and it's not right or wrong. It's how God made you and put you in your specific spot to live the specific way. And so, yeah, I think comparison also makes me feel like it can cause you to be insecure about yourself, and then it can cause you to, like, not see people in the right way.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:38]:
Yeah. I think a comparison thing can. Can try to trick you into running somebody else's speed that you're not meant to run.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:44]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:45]:
And that can Work in both ways. It could work in the way of, like, it slows you down to a point where you're not meant to run that slow, or it speeds you up to a point where you're not meant to run that fast.
Leslie Johnston [00:33:54]:
Exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:33:54]:
And so I think it's a huge test. It's a huge test of figuring out, like, who am I and what do I need to feel my very best? And I think that comes with time and trial and error. But there are probably three different, like, spaces of rest that I think all of us would need to take a little bit of a look at and take some inventory and figure out where you're at in those things. And the first is obviously spiritual rest. So are you engaging in a spiritual form of Sabbath? I really love the way that Bayside talks about vacation, but I mess up how they talk about it every time. And it's three things. It's like.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:28]:
Oh, it's like, divert daily.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:30]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:30]:
So having some type of time during the day where you're, like, diverting from work or spending time with God, withdraw weekly. So actually having a full day off and then abandon annually.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:43]:
Right.
Leslie Johnston [00:34:44]:
So take a vacation somewhere.
Morgan May Treuil [00:34:46]:
Yeah, do that. So I think that those three. Divert daily, withdraw weekly, withdraw weekly, abandon annually. Those things should be, like. Those should be rhythms for all areas of life, not just work. So, like, spiritually, that should be a rhythm where, like, daily you're spending time with God, weekly you're giving a whole day of, like, rest time with you and God. Not that you have to be in your Bible, like, all day long. You could be doing other things, too.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:11]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:11]:
And then the idea of, like, I go on a retreat once, once a month or once a year or whatever. Same thing goes for friends and relationships. So there's, like, a form of spiritual rest. There's a form of, like, relational rest. I'm with people who are filling my cup. And then I think there's like, a physical rest, which means you're actually physically taking care of your body. You're getting good sleep. You're, you know, filling your body with.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:37]:
I think Kurt Harlow says, like, eat something green. Like, you're filling your body with something that's actually made to help your body run.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:43]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:35:44]:
You're not just running on, like, hot Cheetos and sugar and stuff, even though sometimes that helps get the job done. But I think if they were to take, like, an inventory of those three areas, that would be helpful for me.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:55]:
Yes.
Leslie Johnston [00:35:55]:
You need to be sleeping. Like, the physical rest part. We were talking about this Just the other day, because I've grown up doing. Not grown up, but in my adult years, been doing a lot of events. That's part of my job. And I know a lot of people who stay up through the night before events to try to get stuff done. And I have never been that person. Somehow the events have gone off and been totally fine.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:19]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:19]:
But I'm like, the rest you get from sleeping makes you a better worker.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:23]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:24]:
During your. It's just like how you take care of yourself.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:28]:
You might have gotten more stuff done the night before, but then you woke up a zombie for all the volunteers and the people that.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:33]:
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I know. And that's not to say like, oh, you who can't stay up late. But to me, I was like, I have to prioritize sleeping because I'm not going to be my best if I'm. If I'd rather have one thing knock it done and me get sleep than stay up all night. Now I have an event in like a week that's really massive, so we'll see if I stick to it. So, yeah, like, I just really prioritize it.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:54]:
We'll have to report back and be.
Leslie Johnston [00:36:55]:
Like, I'll let you know if I slept or not.
Morgan May Treuil [00:36:57]:
Okay. So if you're listening to this as we're approaching a new season in which rest is something that is prioritized.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:04]:
Yes.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:05]:
Before we get to that spot, take the rest of your school weeks. Take the rest of your work weeks before we get there and start asking some of those questions. What does rest look like in my life? Am I neglecting it or am I leaning. Yes, maybe too far into it. And then what does it look like in those three areas? And then give yourself some space to release yourself from, like, the. The pressure of my being too selfish with my rest.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:27]:
Yes, exactly.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:28]:
Those are great.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:29]:
It's maintenance. It's. Yeah. Self care. Doesn't have to be selfish.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:34]:
Yeah, that's great.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:35]:
I love it. And prioritize your life. Like, even if you have to write it down, what are your priorities? What do you want?
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:41]:
Map it out.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:42]:
Yes. What does God want for your life? Like, if we're supposed to die to ourselves, that doesn't mean, oh, now I die to every form of keeping myself healthy. God wants you at your healthiest. So.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:53]:
Yeah.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:54]:
We love you guys.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:55]:
Love you guys.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:56]:
Get some rest.
Morgan May Treuil [00:37:57]:
My pants.
Leslie Johnston [00:37:58]:
Take a nap. Do whatever you need to do to survive. Exactly. We love you and we will see you next week.