Morgan [00:00:00]:
All right, you guys, welcome back to the Am I Doing this Right Podcast.
Leslie [00:00:03]:
Morgan and Leslie here from our podcast.
Morgan [00:00:06]:
Welcome back. Here's my unpopular opinion for today. We've actually talked about this recently. I think they should only make red and clear gummies. Red, pink, purple, clear green, yellow, and orange. Nobody likes them. Everybody avoids them, and they're not worthy of being a gummy. Oh, shoot.
Leslie [00:00:31]:
Okay, you.
Morgan [00:00:32]:
You disagree with me.
Leslie [00:00:33]:
You flamed my candy drawer. That I can't. My candy salad.
Morgan [00:00:37]:
The fact that you have a candy drawer is insane.
Leslie [00:00:40]:
In my office, Donna in our office, has actually given me, like, this jar of peach rings from our previous episode where I talked about how I loved peach rings so much and I hate peach rings, and everybody's and my. And myself are eating them. So the peach rings went away really quickly.
Morgan [00:00:56]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:00:56]:
And so then she refilled back up, which was so sweet, but she put a bunch of candy in there. And then Morgan came in on stories being like, yellow and green and orange gummies should not exist.
Morgan [00:01:07]:
All I'm doing is is pushing them aside to get the gummies I want.
Leslie [00:01:10]:
Why do you not like them? And also, you're thinking that clear should stay over any of those flavors is the craziest thing I've ever heard. Clear is the most unpopular opinion.
Morgan [00:01:19]:
Here's why I think I like it. So I actually didn't know that. Interesting.
Leslie [00:01:24]:
What?
Morgan [00:01:24]:
Okay, I didn't know this. So. So red is raspberry, which we all knew it's the superior flavor.
Leslie [00:01:29]:
Red's. I thought red was cherry.
Morgan [00:01:31]:
Well, I think red. I think they probably taste the same. Like, red can be cherry or it can be raspberry, but you know that red is, like a cherry or raspberry.
Leslie [00:01:39]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Morgan [00:01:40]:
Orange is orange, obviously. Yellow is lemon. And I think that orange and lemon are not good candy flavors because they're too citrusy. Like, they don't taste like candy. They taste like. Like sour fruit, which can be good, but it's not what you want in a gummy. You want, like, a red dye. 40.
Morgan [00:02:00]:
Just, like, red, Juicy gummy. Now, here's. This is surprising to me. I'm looking at the back of this. What flavor do you think that green is?
Leslie [00:02:08]:
Apple.
Morgan [00:02:10]:
Okay. This says that green is strawberry.
Leslie [00:02:14]:
What?
Morgan [00:02:14]:
Which is funny. Try it. Because I would never look. I would never have tasted a green gummy and thought, this is a strawberry gummy.
Leslie [00:02:25]:
It does kind of taste like strawberry.
Morgan [00:02:27]:
But if you put this in my mouth and I wasn't looking at it, I'd be like, I would like this flavor. No, I wouldn't have think this was green.
Leslie [00:02:34]:
Oh, you like this flavor? I thought you didn't like green.
Morgan [00:02:37]:
I don't like green visually.
Leslie [00:02:39]:
But you like this green.
Morgan [00:02:40]:
But I like the flavor of this. Like, if I close my eyes and then pineapple's just good. Which is the clear one?
Leslie [00:02:48]:
Clear ones are always pineapple or they're coconut, and those are terrible. Gummy Flav.
Morgan [00:02:52]:
I agree with you. Terrible. But I like pineapple.
Leslie [00:02:55]:
Do you like banana flavored? Like Laffy? Like a banana Laffy Taffy? I love banana Laffy Taffy.
Morgan [00:03:02]:
You like a banana candy flavor only in Laffy Taffy.
Leslie [00:03:06]:
Is that what it's called?
Morgan [00:03:07]:
I feel.
Leslie [00:03:08]:
I'm feeling like if that's not what it's called, I'm really making a fool of myself.
Morgan [00:03:13]:
It is that I don't like banana flavored things.
Leslie [00:03:17]:
I like. I mean, I like all gummies. Like, that whole thing. I will avoid the clears. The clears are, like, terrible.
Morgan [00:03:24]:
But you'll eat orange and yellow. Like, you'll go for an orange or yellow.
Leslie [00:03:27]:
Yeah, I'm. I mean, like, if I were going, I'd go for green or red. But I feel like the orangery. I mean, I don't discriminate against those. I like them all.
Morgan [00:03:36]:
I just think that most people are not going to for any of the citrusy ones.
Leslie [00:03:41]:
I think that might just be.
Morgan [00:03:42]:
You buy a Haribo bag of just. Is how you say it? Haribo. It sounds kind of weird. If I could just buy a bag of red gummies, I would only buy red gummies.
Leslie [00:03:54]:
You know who's perfected this is Starburst. They sell, like, just pinks or just pinks and reds because they know people don't like those other ones.
Morgan [00:04:03]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:04:03]:
So maybe you're onto something actually.
Morgan [00:04:05]:
True. Those mini bags of Starburst that we eat at small group. It's reds, pinks, and purples.
Leslie [00:04:10]:
Yeah. Why?
Morgan [00:04:11]:
Okay, but does Starburst. This proves my point. Does Starburst create a bag of minis that are all green, yellow, and orange?
Leslie [00:04:19]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:04:20]:
No, they don't.
Leslie [00:04:21]:
Skittles. Skittles does. Like a tropical bag. And that's all the like, blues, yellows, greens, and I think that's the best, the by far the best Skittle.
Morgan [00:04:32]:
I want to see some sales reports from Skittles. I want someone from Skittles to get in contact with us and to tell us how the tropical bag does with sales, because my guess is the lowest selling good.
Leslie [00:04:43]:
But they also do the purple and.
Morgan [00:04:44]:
Red bag, which probably does Way better. Because people love red dye 40.
Leslie [00:04:49]:
Look at us screaming Red die for they love it.
Morgan [00:04:53]:
And then it's gonna be banned or it has been banned.
Leslie [00:04:56]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:04:56]:
Honestly, this is, this is freaking. What's the word for something that we shouldn't have anymore?
Leslie [00:05:03]:
Canceled.
Morgan [00:05:04]:
Well, that, but like.
Leslie [00:05:05]:
Oh.
Morgan [00:05:06]:
Like it's in our possession, but it's, it's been outlawed. Contraband. This is contraband.
Leslie [00:05:13]:
Wait, can you tell me what is the, what's the latest with the Red Die 40 movement?
Morgan [00:05:17]:
We should ask Benji, actually, because he keeps up to date with this stuff more. I know that at one point there was talk of trying to ban it from food because it is a known cancer causing agents.
Leslie [00:05:32]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:05:32]:
Like, it's like cigarettes, we should not be smoking cigarettes. We should not be eating Red Eye 40.
Leslie [00:05:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:05:38]:
I don't know where they're at in the process of that. Where, like if everybody's just stopped. The other thing is like when you go to Europe, I don't know if this is. I know this is true for like sodas and stuff. When you look at the ingredients of a Coke in Europe, the same brand, same company versus a Coke here, the amount of ingredients that are in a Coke in Europe are like way less than the amount of ingredients that are in a Coke here. So we're putting a lot of crap.
Leslie [00:06:05]:
We gotta, we gotta stricken. Strict. Stricten up this thing.
Morgan [00:06:09]:
Yeah. Except that it's gonna make everything taste a lot worse.
Leslie [00:06:12]:
No, that's true, that's true. I. I heard that In n out is taking out some of their dyes.
Morgan [00:06:17]:
Yes. And yellow and orange.
Leslie [00:06:20]:
I heard. Or something.
Morgan [00:06:20]:
Yes. And something about seed oil too.
Leslie [00:06:24]:
Oh yeah, yeah. Which is crazy because meanwhile other fast food places are adding to theirs. They're putting more seed oil, more.
Morgan [00:06:32]:
Oh my God.
Leslie [00:06:32]:
More coatings on their fries, and then they're worse.
Morgan [00:06:35]:
Well, whatever Chick Fil a has been doing to their fries, they need some extra something or some less something. Because Chick Fil A's fry texture has changed in the last year.
Leslie [00:06:44]:
So that's a new thing that they're doing.
Morgan [00:06:46]:
What do you mean?
Leslie [00:06:46]:
They were saying that they're fries. I could be wrong, but, but they were, I think they were saying that their fries weren't lasting very long, so they added a second coating of some type of oil.
Morgan [00:06:57]:
Okay.
Leslie [00:06:58]:
So now they're double coated, which I.
Morgan [00:07:01]:
Agree that they weren't lasting long before.
Leslie [00:07:03]:
Uhhuh.
Morgan [00:07:04]:
Now I think they're still not lasting long and they taste worse.
Leslie [00:07:08]:
Yeah, I don't like them as much.
Morgan [00:07:10]:
No, that's an interesting theory, but you have to eat the fries immediately.
Leslie [00:07:14]:
Yes, yes.
Morgan [00:07:14]:
Or else it's over. Same thing with In.
Leslie [00:07:16]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:07:16]:
I love.
Leslie [00:07:17]:
I love In n out fries. I love chick fil a. I like In n outs more. Cuz they. You see the potatoes going in there, like.
Morgan [00:07:23]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:07:23]:
You just watch it happen. It feels like watching where the sausage.
Morgan [00:07:27]:
Gets made, the potatoes get made. One thing that I discovered recently, I really love Cane's chicken.
Leslie [00:07:34]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:07:35]:
I love everything about it. I love the chicken, I love the fries, I love the toast. Like, it's one of those places where everything. You get so floppy.
Leslie [00:07:41]:
Like, I feel like if you hold it, it's.
Morgan [00:07:44]:
You can get it well done, though. Then it's not. Then it's really. Then it's the opposite of floppy. Yeah, you can. But what I discovered is I don't like eating food in the restaurant right now. I just get anxious about it. I want to take it home.
Morgan [00:07:54]:
But I realized I would take it home. And because of the way that the box is fully closed, you get home and everything's soggy chicken, soggy bread, soggy fries. Soggy. And there's nothing worse than biting into a soggy tender. Oh, a soggy fried.
Leslie [00:08:08]:
Their fries were terrible. If they're soggy, they're the worst. Yeah.
Morgan [00:08:11]:
Or a soggy toast. All that.
Leslie [00:08:13]:
And then fish sauce on that gross.
Morgan [00:08:15]:
Fish sauce.
Leslie [00:08:17]:
That's what I call their sauce. It tastes like fish sauce. Like a sauce like from the Chinese place? No, no, no. Like. Like a Louisiana fish sauce.
Morgan [00:08:27]:
You don't like cane sauce?
Leslie [00:08:29]:
It's like. No, it's not that I don't like it. I just feel like it's weird with chicken. Like it's like a sauce that should be with like shrimp, crawfish, or shrimp because it's got a fishy taste to it. Next time you have it, you're gonna be like, this is some fish.
Morgan [00:08:42]:
I'm gonna taste it. That's so interesting. I've never, you know, with chicken. What's the sauce that you use for chicken?
Leslie [00:08:50]:
You mean like at like chick fil a or something?
Morgan [00:08:52]:
No, like, what's your.
Leslie [00:08:53]:
Like your buffalo.
Morgan [00:08:54]:
You like? Which is funny because that's a way similar profile to cane sauce than like a chick fil a sauce.
Leslie [00:09:00]:
No, a cane sauce is literally like. It's. I feel like they crush up little fish bits and put it in there.
Morgan [00:09:05]:
There's like anchovies.
Leslie [00:09:06]:
It's anchovies also. We were at dinner last night with one of our friends for his birthday.
Morgan [00:09:11]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:09:11]:
And Morgan finishes up like her Caesar salad and she doesn't totally finish it. And there's like a fat anchovy just sitting on the top of it.
Morgan [00:09:18]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:09:19]:
And he takes that anchovy and eats the. I mean, literally, it's this long. He eats the entire thing.
Morgan [00:09:24]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:09:24]:
And as he's. We're like, whoa, I can't believe you like anchovies. But we realized he's never had one before and he put that in his mouth and he was like this.
Morgan [00:09:35]:
He was like, I don't know. I'm. I'm having a hard time.
Leslie [00:09:36]:
The anchovy did not.
Morgan [00:09:38]:
I've never seen him get grossed out.
Leslie [00:09:39]:
I know. He was like, I can't, I can't.
Morgan [00:09:41]:
I can't do this. Oh. But what I was going to say though, for the canes hack.
Leslie [00:09:45]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:09:45]:
If you get in the car after you get your canes order and you open the lid to let air in, everything stays crispy.
Leslie [00:09:53]:
Yes. You can never roll up a bag and not included soggy. Soggy fries.
Morgan [00:09:58]:
Yes. It doesn't like air being trapped.
Leslie [00:10:00]:
Got to let the air out. Cuz then it's like a steam room and it just all gets all soggy and gross.
Morgan [00:10:05]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:10:05]:
Yeah. I agree with you. You don't like eating inside restaurants.
Morgan [00:10:08]:
Not right now. I don't know. It just makes. Actually, to be honest, I would always rather get something and take it home than a restaurant.
Leslie [00:10:16]:
Well, I also feel like sometimes restaurants are kind of like fast food type places kind of gross. And then. I don't know. I agree with you.
Morgan [00:10:24]:
I feel like one of the ways that you've changed me. Y' all are big. Like, you enjoy a sit down meal for sure, but you're also fine with like, if the experience calls for an on the go thing, you're fine to do an on the go thing too.
Leslie [00:10:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:10:37]:
Benji is not okay with an on the go thing.
Leslie [00:10:39]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:10:40]:
It's like, I'm like, hey, let's grab something on the way over to this. And it's like he makes it this personal life's mission stance to be like, well, we're going to stop and relax and we're going to eat. And then he loves to like recline at table and just sit and enjoy. Even after we're done eating. I'm like, we're done here, let's go. Like, I think he thinks it's quality time. Like we can spend time at the house.
Leslie [00:11:01]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:11:02]:
We can spend time at somebody else's house. Why are we sitting here?
Leslie [00:11:05]:
I only enjoy a Dine in experience. If it is a sit down restaurant.
Morgan [00:11:10]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:11:11]:
If I'm at Zocalo or Mikuni or whatever. Perfect.
Morgan [00:11:14]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:11:14]:
But I just don't feel a need if there is a to go option at the place.
Morgan [00:11:18]:
Because it's a to go place.
Leslie [00:11:19]:
Taking the to go if the place.
Morgan [00:11:21]:
Is not invested a ton of effort in their environment inside.
Leslie [00:11:24]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:11:25]:
Why would I not just take it to.
Leslie [00:11:26]:
Yeah. My one exception is when we do in and out late, you know, like after an event, if we go and we sit there, then I'm totally fine.
Morgan [00:11:33]:
But that's a certain kind of environment that you want.
Leslie [00:11:35]:
Yeah. To me, if I has to be.
Morgan [00:11:37]:
An environment, you, I think it's probably.
Leslie [00:11:38]:
Because both of us, we're kind of go, go, go people.
Morgan [00:11:41]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:11:41]:
And to me, it feels like a total waste of time to just sit down in a fast food place and eat my food.
Morgan [00:11:46]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:11:46]:
Like, no, I want to go do what I was. What I'm.
Morgan [00:11:48]:
What I was to go do. I'm on the way to do something.
Leslie [00:11:51]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:11:52]:
Do you feel like it bothers you to keep sitting once you're done eating at a restaurant?
Leslie [00:11:56]:
Yeah. I'm like, yeah, it's like, it's over.
Morgan [00:11:58]:
Like, I have no more conversation in me.
Leslie [00:12:00]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:12:01]:
This place officially has nothing for me. You have nothing for me. Like, it's like, this is done. We're done.
Leslie [00:12:07]:
Oh, totally. I'm like, on to the next.
Morgan [00:12:09]:
Yes. I think Benji gets offended by that right now. Like, he's offended by me not wanting to, like, sit and hang and shoot the breeze. I'm like, we're together all the time.
Leslie [00:12:18]:
I expect you to make this the most lively conversation that we've ever had.
Morgan [00:12:22]:
Question cards. Pull out a deck of cards or something. I need something to aim my energy at anyways. That's actually really funny.
Leslie [00:12:29]:
I feel the same exact way, man.
Morgan [00:12:31]:
Okay. That was. That was probably more than you bargained for in the beginning. That was like, we want to talk.
Leslie [00:12:36]:
About church hurt and these girls are talking about canes.
Morgan [00:12:38]:
That is what we're talking about today. We are. This is a. This is an episode that I actually don't know the direction it's going to go. We're going to let it go in whatever direction we want. And if you requested this episode, which lots of you did. Yeah. When we've pulled you guys on what you want to talk about, if you feel like this isn't what you wanted, then just tell us more specifically what you mean.
Morgan [00:12:56]:
Because this can be a broad topic.
Leslie [00:12:58]:
But based what you want God.
Morgan [00:13:00]:
We're not mind readers. We can't just. But, but the thing that people seem like they want to talk about with this subject is the idea that we've talked about how we hate this phrasing. Church hurt.
Leslie [00:13:11]:
Yeah, yeah.
Morgan [00:13:12]:
Church hurt is kind of a. And if you're not a Christian, you're listening to this. It's a very Christianese way of talking about the wounds that you incur because of being a part of the church or the body of Christ. So it's like, it's this weird thing where you go into church life and you expect, because you're around Christians, you expect that this is a safe place where you won't get hurt. People are not going to gossip about you or bully you or betray you or. Because they shouldn't. This is like the safe place. This is the people of God and the place of God.
Morgan [00:13:42]:
So you come into it at first with like, guards down, but then because people are people, you end up getting hurt because of being around people. And the reason we call it church hurt and why it's become such a movement is because people have these bad interactions at church that wounds them so deeply to where they contemplate removing themselves from church life altogether. Or some people have even, like, left faith over it because they see the way that Christians act behind closed doors and they're like, well, I don't want a part of. I don't want to be part of this. And then there's the whole concept of like or the whole thing that I feel like we hear a lot of people talk about too, which is choosing which church you want to go to. How do I know if a church is right for me? Being too critical and too, like, church shopping. So we're kind of talking about everything. Church and our experience with this and the experience we come to it with is people who have been attending church since our whole lives, basically.
Morgan [00:14:46]:
Yeah, you, since you were a baby, because you were born into, which I think your experience is going to be so cool. Because if there's anybody who probably has excused to have church hurt, it's you. Because your family and your upbringing is so closely connected to the church.
Leslie [00:15:02]:
Yeah, yeah.
Morgan [00:15:03]:
So I'm excited to hear your perspective on this. And for me, we started getting really involved in church early middle school, then we both work in church now, so have had experiences moving to new place, trying, trying to be a part of new churches, having experience being hurt by people in church, all those things. So I guess the best place or the best question to start with is, do you feel like you have experience with what people are talking about when they talk about church hurt and what have been your expectations going into church that have helped you have a healthy relationship with it?
Leslie [00:15:43]:
Yeah, that's a great question.
Morgan [00:15:44]:
I think that's a big part of it.
Leslie [00:15:45]:
I am excited for us to talk about this and because I feel like the phrase church hurt gets used like the phrase gaslighting does sometimes where. Or bullying, where. I think sometimes people have real church hurt, and then some people blame the church for what people do. And so I think sometimes I kind of wish we could get rid of the phrase church hurt, because I think it's not technically. Well, depending on your situation, I guess. I guess I can't speak for everybody, but a lot of times I feel like it's not necessarily the church hurting you. It's people who are in the church hurting you. And sometimes we blame God and Jesus and we throw the baby out with the bath water because we.
Leslie [00:16:35]:
We use the word church hurt. But, yeah, I feel like. I know at first because I was like, oh, I don't know if I have any, like, church hurt, because I haven't really even thought like that phrase was. That's like a newer phrase. I feel like that we've been. That people have been saying, yeah, but. So I was four years old when Bayside started, and I grew up and I hated going to church. Like, I was shy.
Leslie [00:16:59]:
I didn't want to go. I didn't want to be in the kids ministry. Like, I would try to sit with my mom. I remember, like, faking sick so I didn't have to go to church. Like, I was. I was not. I was. I guess I was your typical fast.
Morgan [00:17:10]:
Do you remember what you hated about it?
Leslie [00:17:14]:
I think I didn't know. I didn't have it. I guess maybe I was little and I was shy and I didn't maybe have a lot of friends.
Morgan [00:17:19]:
So just a elementary school. Yeah. Yeah.
Leslie [00:17:22]:
It felt scary, and it felt like, yeah, for whatever reason, I didn't like it. But as I got older, I did start to like it because I started to, like, realize why we went to church and there were people I loved and all of that. But then I remember. I mean, we had some serious stuff happen. Well, let me start light. So lighter side is like middle school. I remember that's just a weird time for everybody. And friends are moving on to high school.
Leslie [00:17:51]:
But maybe you're different years and whatever. So I remember having friends where it was like, oh, in elementary school, we're really close. Middle school got a little dicier, and they were moving on to other friends. And so I remember. I think I've told you the story. I remember some friends kind of being like, oh, we're too old for you now. Like, you're still in middle school. We're going into high school.
Leslie [00:18:12]:
And I remember going and sitting in service with my mom. It was a Sunday where, like, everybody came to, like, big church. So we're all sitting inside, and I remember sitting next to my mom, and. And all the middle schoolers were also in. In the big service. And I remember my mom turning to me, being like, you should go sit with your friends. And I remember, like, going. I just didn't say anything to her.
Leslie [00:18:33]:
And I remember in my mind being like, I don't have any friends.
Morgan [00:18:36]:
Oh, my God.
Leslie [00:18:37]:
Like, I remember sitting there and this, like. Just this wave of, like, I'm. I'm so lonely. I have no friends in this church. Like, all my friends that I did have, they're too cool for me now because they're older.
Morgan [00:18:50]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:18:51]:
And I just remember being like, I have no friends. Like, my friends that I did have, they don't want to be friends with me anymore. And so I remember that being so sad. But I'm glad. I think a lot of people, when they don't have friends somewhere, they just get to jump ship, which maybe I would have, but I'm forced to because I'm, like, by blood. Have to be part of this church.
Morgan [00:19:10]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:19:11]:
So then it was so funny, though, because I stuck with it. And when I went to high school, it totally turned around, where I ended up meeting, like, my. My best friends through high school and just had, like, a great community. So I think there were moments where it was like, oh, my friends at church should be really inclusive because they're Christians, but, like, people are people, and they disappoint you. But you know what's funny is I never looked at any of that. Well, I'll give a serious example, too. So then in later elementary school, Bayside was, like, launching our first campus where we actually were gonna, like, own the land. And there were so many, like, threats and all this, like, this people in the community were like, we don't want outsiders coming here and whatever.
Leslie [00:19:57]:
It's like a bunch of cranky Granite Bay people. And so I remember when Bayside was trying to launch, we had, like, threats sent to our house and death threats of, like, we'll kill your family if you plant. It was, like, so insane for a church.
Morgan [00:20:13]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:20:13]:
And I remember Christy and I saw some of these things, and we heard about these things, and we'd have to have security set outside our house, and our front, like, our window, saw it. And so it was, like, just a series of time where some of these crazy people, some from our community and some from our church were, like, going psycho. And I remember being like, there are crazy people in church. Like, this is, like, I feel unsafe. It's. It produced, like, a lot of anxiety for my sister and for me. And so. But, you know, I look back on all those times where I've had, like, things said to me, or being a pastor's kid, I could name off, like, a hundred times that people said rude things.
Leslie [00:20:56]:
But all of those things, I look back now at my experience, and I don't. Like, I would never call that church hurt. Like, I would call that people. Like, people's sins. Like, people.
Morgan [00:21:10]:
That's, like, a people problem, people being crazy.
Leslie [00:21:12]:
And what I actually love about my experience with church and that I got to grow up in the craziness and the highs and lows of it is that I separate God so much in my mind. Like, my relationship with God is not tied to, like, those bad experiences.
Morgan [00:21:29]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:21:29]:
It's like, I look at church as, like, church is a place for broken people. It's a place for broken people to, like, learn about the love of God, be transformed, have healing. But that doesn't mean that it's gonna be perfect.
Morgan [00:21:42]:
No.
Leslie [00:21:43]:
And that doesn't mean that people aren't gonna make mistakes. Or there's been leadership in the church that I've disagreed with or I've been hurt by, or I've hurt them, or vice versa. And I've watched things happen where I go, but it never makes me go like, oh, I don't believe in Bayside, or I don't believe in God or my relationship with Jesus. Like, yes, it goes through, like, highs and lows, but those experiences have never. If anything, it's just made me like, wow, we need more church because people need to be transformed.
Morgan [00:22:15]:
And that's great.
Leslie [00:22:17]:
I don't know. That's just my personal experience.
Morgan [00:22:19]:
It's a great way of looking at that. I think it's hard because you look at the experiences of people when it comes to church, and I feel like you hear one of two testimonies. You either hear of people having a hard life. They come to church, they meet God, and they meet God's people, and then everything gets so much better because of it. Like, they're In a safe place for the first time, they have really quality friends. For the first time, they were received and made to feel at home. And it's like that's the ideal situation. Right.
Morgan [00:22:51]:
And God uses his church to display his heart to us. That doesn't mean that we always get it right, but that's part of his design. So there are people that have stories where they, the church was the place that they met God and they met God through God's people. And it all worked the way it was supposed to. Yeah, that's like one testimony. And then the second testimony is people had an expectation. It's kind of like what you were talking about. People had a pre existing expectation about church that this is the place in life where I should feel the most received and the most safe.
Morgan [00:23:25]:
And based on my interactions with these people, I'm not getting any of that. And therefore now the church has like broken an expectation of mine. The church has disappointed me or it's made me question a part of God's character. And so what's amazing about the church is it has the ability to heal people. And then at the same time, because God didn't choose to do church by himself, but he chose to involve us in it. That means that there are some very flawed teammates, a part of the system here. Yeah, if God wanted to do it right every single time, he could have done it by himself. But that's just not the way that the world works.
Morgan [00:24:06]:
And so because people are involved, it's wrong. And I love, I love what you said to your experience about like, okay, when I saw these security guards outside of my house, I realized, oh, the church is actually filled with a lot of crazy people too. It's not just this one type of person. Yeah. And that that experience could have done one of two things for you. And I'm really glad that it did the latter. The first thing it could have done is sent you into a space where you're like, I hate the church and I hate God's people because this wouldn't be happening. Like my parents would be like, look at my parents are giving their whole lives up for all of you people.
Morgan [00:24:42]:
And not only do you not appreciate it, you're like threatening them. You know, like, it could have produced that in you, which I wouldn't have blamed you for. That's a, especially as a young person, like, that's a crazy thing to learn. But the other alternative to what those experiences can do for you is it can teach you. And you said it so perfectly. It's like, oh, okay, so the gospel is meant to intersect with really broken people and really broken situations. So if that's true, then part of the church and the way that it looks and functions is that broken people have to be a part of the equation or else the gospel isn't working. If there's no broken people, the gospel's not being put to its best use.
Leslie [00:25:24]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:25:24]:
And so if you think about it in that way, you have to remind yourself when you're entering into a church space or a small group or a ministry. Yes. Part of the function of this is to serve you in the sense that it shows you part of God's heart. The other aspect to this is that the gospel is at work in the lives and situations of broken people. And in that there are various situations in which the shrapnel of God's holiness intersecting with the brokenness of human sin can create issues that will ricochet off any and hit you sometimes. And it's not a personal attack against you. It's a reality of a fallen and broken world. Right.
Morgan [00:26:05]:
And so I think your expectations.
Leslie [00:26:08]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:26:09]:
Are huge when it comes to interacting with the church life. And it sounded like yours were formed at a really early age. Right. Like, I remember the first church that we got involved with. This is the church where my parents really started a relationship with God. And it's the church that we ended up loving so much that we moved closer to be near that neighborhood. And it changed where we went to school and who we grew up with. And it was life transformative for our family.
Morgan [00:26:39]:
It was the church that I attended until I moved here. Like, it was our church and we loved it. And we were there for probably six. I want to say it's like six weeks to a couple months apart and learning. And my parents were falling in love with Jesus. When it came out that the lead pastor, who had been, like, really ministering to my parents and he had gained this big following for that area, it came out that he was embezzling money from the church.
Leslie [00:27:08]:
Oh, wow.
Morgan [00:27:09]:
Like, a lot of money. And there was a whole investigation, and he ended up being put away. And it was this whole thing. And the church was kind of like brought down to its bolts a little bit where it's like most people left because it's not cool when your tithe money is being used to buy things that don't make sense.
Leslie [00:27:25]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:27:26]:
And there was no leadership. And so it was like this very surreal experience where, like, God immediately made it clear to us, you think that this might be A place where everything feels whole. And actually, this is a place where lots of people are broken, even including the leaders that you look up to. It taught us very early. You're not allowed to idolize a person.
Leslie [00:27:48]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:27:49]:
Which is a hard lesson to learn. And I would say that a lot of people who are listening to this, if they would. If they would phrase it that they had church hurt, then a lot of that is probably connected to a leader that was that they had expectations of being a perfect leader. And actually they were a very flawed leader and that affected them.
Leslie [00:28:07]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:28:08]:
And I want to make a quick little statement that there probably are people listening to this where you might have incurred or experienced abuse at the hand of a church or a church leader. And those are really, really unfortunate, horrible circumstances that we are so sorry that you've had to go through. There is nothing to even say to accommodate for what you've experienced or undo what you've experienced. Those are horrible, horrible things or inexcusable things. And we're not talking about those things in the sense where. Yeah. You just didn't have the right expectations going in. You should have expected that.
Morgan [00:28:45]:
Like, that is not at all.
Leslie [00:28:47]:
Definitely not.
Morgan [00:28:48]:
That's injustice. That's a fallen and broken world. That kind of stuff makes God angry. Those are not things you should tolerate or stick around for. So we're caveating with that.
Leslie [00:28:58]:
Those are things, too. Just to stay on that point for a second. That even if those things are meant to be brought to light.
Morgan [00:29:06]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:29:07]:
Where it's like, just because someone is sick. A Christian. Like they're a Christian or they're a leader. They're in a space where they're doing great things. It's like those things should be brought to light because healing needs to be for you and for that person. 100.
Morgan [00:29:21]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:29:21]:
And that you do need to go to a place where you feel safe and you feel like you can experience and have a thriving relationship with God in a community where you're safe. You don't have to stay in that space. But don't let that. Don't let the enemy use that to.
Morgan [00:29:38]:
Distance you from God ultimately.
Leslie [00:29:41]:
Like, distance yourself from the church or from that church or wherever, but find yourself someplace where the enemy doesn't win in that scenario.
Morgan [00:29:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, the thing that's a really. This is a good. This is a good disclaimer to make that. That's not the thing we're talking about. That's a different professional counseling conversation. That they're are situations in which the people in the church can be really harmful to you to the point where you need to leave.
Morgan [00:30:09]:
You need to remove yourself. All of those things. The situations that we are talking about are milder than those. Yeah. Not that they're not just as hurtful. Sorry. Not just as hurtful. There are not many things that are as hurtful as abuse.
Morgan [00:30:23]:
That's horrible. We're talking about things that are more like they are hurtful to you, but they are not things that should necessarily cause you to immediately leave as your next course of action. To remove yourself.
Leslie [00:30:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:30:36]:
What would be like an example of something. Where. Have you ever been to a church where you've made the decision to leave the church? Which is a hard question because you've been Bayside most of your life. Maybe when you were in college.
Leslie [00:30:48]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:30:49]:
Or maybe it was like a particular small group or a ministry or something where you were a part of it and you made the decision to leave it. And why did you make the decision to leave? Or do you remember why?
Leslie [00:30:58]:
Yeah, I. I feel like I jumped around churches a little bit in college. I love what we have at Bayside. And when I went down to school in Southern California, I felt like I had a really hard time finding a church that felt like Bayside.
Morgan [00:31:12]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:31:12]:
And so I felt like a church shopped, as people say, where it was like I went someplace and I was like, I don't like the worship or I don't like the teaching or I don't like whatever. And that's a hard place to be. And you can get really picky about things that are B level issues. I think sometimes we forget, like, no church. Church is not meant to be, like, catered to your every desire of what you like for worship or what you like for preaching or whatever. But to me, I feel like we. I didn't connect to one of the churches that we were at with the people there. I felt like it was one of those, you came in, no one really talked to you, and then you left.
Leslie [00:31:54]:
And we tried going to, like, the young adults thing, a few of us, and it just like, didn't really connect very well.
Morgan [00:32:01]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:32:02]:
So I felt like we left for that, but it was the lack of connection. But I think my parents had just trained us when we were little. Like, church was not optional. It wasn't like, I mean, we'd be on vacation and sometimes we're like, we're finding a church to go to.
Morgan [00:32:15]:
Are you serious right now?
Leslie [00:32:16]:
I'm like, what? But I appreciate that because I watched as a lot of My other friends growing up, they weren't. Church was a little more optional. And so then when they got into, like adulthood, when something feels super optional, it was like they kind of fell off. And then it kind of took down an interesting path. But so I'm thankful that, like, when I didn't like the church that I was going to, I was like, okay, I actually do have the freedom to leave because I want to be somewhere where I'm connecting in community. That's kind of like a big, big, massive goal of being together as like a church body is to, like, connect with other believers.
Morgan [00:32:50]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:32:50]:
And so we ended up going to a different church down in LA. Actually, we drove like 45 minutes to go to it, but it was awesome. And so I think it's like, feel the freedom to like, if you're not connecting somewhere, find a place that you actually connect to, but then stay.
Morgan [00:33:07]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:33:08]:
Like, if you start church hopping because this person, it's like a minor issue. Or, oh, the pastor, he's. I don't know which. I never know I'm gonna say, yeah, but maybe he has a different preference for something than you do or whatever. Maybe it's not the biggest deal.
Morgan [00:33:26]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:33:27]:
So I don't know. We hopped around, but I didn't hop around from like a severe church hurt issue.
Morgan [00:33:32]:
Have you? Well, I have one more question before I go into my experience, but because that. Because what you just talked about is interesting. You have this church experience with Bayside that was so awesome. It's hard for whatever you're next thing is to live up to that. But you didn't have that option of going to Bayside when you were away for school.
Leslie [00:33:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:33:51]:
So the church that you ended up going to in la, it was different than Bayside. It wasn't Bayside.
Leslie [00:33:56]:
Super different.
Morgan [00:33:57]:
So what, what was that like? Minds. Obviously there's a mindset. There's a mindset in you where you're like, church is not optional. I'm not going to be a lever or like a shifter. I'm going to stay. But how did you make the adjustments in your mind of like, okay, this is different than Bayside, but I'm okay with this. And different can be good at the same time is also being hard.
Leslie [00:34:17]:
I think I just had to shift to go. There's different communities and there's different churches for different people. And I felt like the church I went to in la, I really loved the worship and the teaching. Still, the community piece was tough. Cause I lived so far from it. It wasn't like, I could get into a small group, all that. So I feel like during those years, I had to go out of just, like, faithfulness a little bit and go, this is worth the drive. This is worth.
Leslie [00:34:51]:
And it was because the teaching was really great and the worship was great.
Morgan [00:34:54]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:34:56]:
And then I got my community at school, like, where I was at. So I think just, like, sometimes it's just sheer faithfulness that I think God eventually honors.
Morgan [00:35:06]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:35:07]:
Even when it's not necessarily fun to go to, there's still days, like, Sundays. I mean, you me know, sometimes it's like when you work at a church too. It's like, I really don't feel like this again. Getting up at 6, whatever, and going to church all day long. But you just. At least. My mom always taught me. She was like, the faithfulness piece, like, pays off eventually in kind of a weird way.
Morgan [00:35:33]:
But in, like, it's a great point.
Leslie [00:35:34]:
You're. You're building something, even if you don't think you're building something.
Morgan [00:35:38]:
Yep.
Leslie [00:35:39]:
By being faithful to the church that.
Morgan [00:35:40]:
You'Re at, it's really good. Because the faithfulness thing will. There's no, like, faithfulness is the opposite of fair weatheredness. Right. So the fair, weathered fans thing, you want to root for this team when they're doing good. You don't want to root for them when you're doing bad.
Leslie [00:35:55]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:35:56]:
It's kind of the same thing with. With church life. There are seasons where it will feel really fulfilling and fruitful and friendships will be flourishing. There are seasons where it won't feel like that. The faithfulness thing is what sustains you throughout your time. It's the discipline of, like, I go, and I'm a part of this when it's good and when it's hard. Because if you're not gonna be there when it's hard, the chances are you won't actually stay long enough to experience when it's good. And we've experienced that time and time again with different ministries or small groups we've been a part of.
Morgan [00:36:27]:
If you will stick with something to see it through its awkward phase, you will get to its awesome phase. But you have to do the work.
Leslie [00:36:34]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:36:34]:
To stick with it.
Leslie [00:36:35]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:36:35]:
Through its awkward.
Leslie [00:36:36]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:36:37]:
I think.
Leslie [00:36:38]:
And something I feel like I learned in college was to not be so offendable. Like, when we would go to these, like, college groups to try out these certain things, and nobody talked to us or whatever, I think sometimes we'd leave and be like, nobody even, like, welcomed us or talked to Us or whatever.
Morgan [00:36:56]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:36:57]:
And then I look back now, especially being on a church staff now, I'm like, oh, it probably was never about us. Like, it wasn't, oh, they didn't like us or they didn't like our people. People. And there's times where sometimes it's not the right fit, and sometimes intentionally it's not the right fit because God may have something different for you, but we become so offendable by being like, no one said hi to me.
Morgan [00:37:22]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:37:23]:
No one came up to me or no one whatever. And yeah, it's like, well, they're in the church, just like you're in the church, so you could actually go do that for them.
Morgan [00:37:31]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:37:32]:
Why? Like, why are you being offended?
Morgan [00:37:34]:
It's funny.
Leslie [00:37:34]:
They're just happening to you.
Morgan [00:37:35]:
You think about, like, the people that are in our small group that we're so close with, and the reason why they stuck at Bayside is because we had interactions with them on the weekends that they came. But if you think about it, all of those interactions were, like, chance interactions. Like, we met our friend John because I was randomly passing him as he was coming in for a service in the lobby in a place I wouldn't usually have been. We met Matt and Holly because you met them, like, on the side of circle up in a circle up, like newcomers thing that they didn't even want to go to.
Leslie [00:38:06]:
You just told them we got in. Yeah.
Morgan [00:38:08]:
It was accidental. And so it's like, when you think about it from that perspective, it's actually so easy to miss people. Especially when you think about this from the perspective that most churches, the people that are saying hi to you, are not paid to be there. So a lot of it's volunteer run. And if you think about it that way, not everybody, not every volunteer has the same skill set of making people feel welcome.
Leslie [00:38:31]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:38:32]:
So, yeah, it's like the recognition of, oh, this actually probably wasn't a personal thing, that I wasn't greeted. In a perfect world, you would have been. And actually, some people's jobs are to try to make it impossible for you to have that experience. But it still happens, and it doesn't mean that it's not personal.
Leslie [00:38:50]:
And we also need to remember people in the church are. Because especially for people who are newer to church, I think they think, oh, you love Jesus. You have a perfect life.
Morgan [00:39:01]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:39:01]:
Or you have no sin struggles or no whatever. And so I think about, like, on my worst days, on certain Sundays, where I'm, like, upset about something or something's going on Or I'm really tired or whatever. Times when I can think about, like, oh, yeah, on that Sunday, I really was just, like, trying to get to the end because I was either exhausted or something else was going on in my life, and someone could have maybe thought that I was being rude or being, whatever, cold or something. But then. So then I think about, like, the times where even if people have been intentionally, like, not friendly or, yeah, maybe they've gossiped about me or they've done something in a youth group that hurt me. I do. It makes me second guess, like, oh, but you know what? Like that phrase, like, hurt people hurt people. I think we just need to remember, like, not that it excuses it.
Leslie [00:39:58]:
That's not what I'm trying to say. But I'm just saying, like, we can take those hurts and then actually make it separate us from the church or from people when, like, people in the church are just as screwed up as people outside the church sometimes. And it's like that hurt people end up hurting people. And so I think sometimes we have to go, like, okay, how do I respond to this in a way that doesn't push me away from God? It actually inspires me to maybe be blessed like them and more welcoming. Like, you see a lot of people. Sometimes they're like, the best greeters, or they're the best, like, people people, because they've had an experience where they're like, I remember not being welcomed at something, or I remember being. So it's like, sometimes you can turn those things as, like, you know what? I'm gonna make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else.
Morgan [00:40:49]:
Which I think is. That's the secret that we don't. We don't grab onto. Right. Like, I remember my college experience is really similar to yours in that I didn't choose the church I grew up in. It was chosen for me. And so I plugged in there. And it just so happened that we had a really awesome youth group experience where I met lots of my lifelong best friends, and it just felt really magical.
Morgan [00:41:12]:
And I realized, looking back on that time, that I wasn't putting in any of the work to make it magical. Other people were putting in the work for me, and I was just experiencing the magic of it. So. So when I went away to college, what I was trying to find was the exact same expression of that just somewhere else. Right? And we didn't. And it was kind of like, I went to a small town with lots of churches that were filled with college students, but it kind of felt like Everywhere that I went, if you didn't get in, like in the first four weeks of your freshman year, you kind of missed the boat a little bit. And it was really hard to attach afterwards. And so I bounced from place to place to place.
Morgan [00:41:51]:
And to be dead honest with you, I didn't actually, actually attach to a church until I started dating a guy later in college who was doing an internship at a specific church. And that was the first time that I made a place like my church home. But it was only because of him. I didn't do it because of me.
Leslie [00:42:08]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:42:08]:
And I look back on that and what I was chasing was that community piece. And I think it's actually a really good thing for you to say, I want to attend a church at a place where I can really be connected to people because that's a huge part of what the church is about. Right. The church is not just about a weekend service where you go and you experience the best worship and the best teaching. That's a part of what you can look for. But the community piece is what actually makes the church the church.
Leslie [00:42:38]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:42:39]:
So I will give myself that credit in the sense that that was a good thing to look for. But what you said is, is kind of was convicting to me in that season of my life. You can look for that, but at a certain point, you're going to have to pick somewhere and decide to make it work. You're going to have to decide to stay. Because if you're constantly floating around places looking for people to welcome you in and do the hard work for you of like making connections, then you will always be a roamer and you will never be in a fixed spot.
Leslie [00:43:09]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:43:09]:
But on the other side of church now, as someone who's been in a church staff and my whole job is to create communities for people as a living, you realize, oh, if everybody would just decide that they're going to learn from how they weren't served and they're going to make it their mission to serve in that way. The church would be a way more welcome, organized place.
Leslie [00:43:31]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:43:31]:
We actually wouldn't even need to do small groups ministry because everyone would just be doing it like organically.
Leslie [00:43:36]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:43:36]:
And so there's definitely a consumer mindset. Again, consumer mindset is another church buzzy word that we use. But it is true.
Leslie [00:43:44]:
That's so true.
Morgan [00:43:44]:
I had a consumer mindset in the sense that I had never put the hard work into building a church. I had experience to church. Then I realized I never carried a builder mindset. With me into my college years and I suffered because of it because I was never willing to commit somewhere, put my heels in and be like, okay, I'm gonna be a part of this, of the solution. And this is a challenge to some people that are listening to this. If you feel like you haven't found your right spot because of the community piece. Yeah, maybe there, maybe, maybe that one place didn't work because community wasn't super accessible. Move on to the next thing.
Morgan [00:44:19]:
But eventually you're going to have to decide like, okay, then I'm going to become a small group leader and create the kind of community that I want to have.
Leslie [00:44:25]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:44:26]:
And you cannot, even though you're not paid by a church staff, you cannot be a consumer at a church that doesn't work for very long. You have to be part of the solution.
Leslie [00:44:35]:
Yeah. That's so good.
Morgan [00:44:37]:
Some things that I think are reasons you can say no to a church. Theologically and doctrinally, you should be fully aligned. Teaching is what you talked about. You should be fully aligned with the place that you go. There are certain issues, and this is, again, this is more of like a preference thing. There are some people that say, I need to be 100 aligned with the church that I attend in all issues, primary, secondary, and tertiary. There are some people who think that primary issues are the things that I'm going to be dogmatic about and everything else I'm going to be chill about. That's your preference.
Morgan [00:45:13]:
But regardless, like the primary issues of doctrine and theology, you have to be.
Leslie [00:45:18]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:45:19]:
Aligned in the place that you're going. So if you go to a church and the worship's great and the teaching's great, but the pastor gets up and is like, hey, Jesus is not God, actually. But you're like, but man, the community is so good. But you're like, you're not connected over the biggest thing, one of the biggest things that we believe. Okay, so theologically and doctrinally, that's a reason to leave.
Leslie [00:45:43]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:45:45]:
What are other reasons where you're like, this is a good reason to leave? Yeah.
Leslie [00:45:53]:
I think if community wise, you have tried and we're not talking, you walked into a room and expo, like, showed your face. Yeah, I'm talking like, you have tried to connect with small groups, you've tried to serve, you've tried to do whatever, and really the community is just not it for you. I think you could leave.
Morgan [00:46:12]:
I think so too. I think worship quality is a great thing to want and to strive for. If you go to a Church where the worship's not that great, but everything else is really awesome. It's a great reason to stay.
Leslie [00:46:32]:
Yeah. The truth. Say leave.
Morgan [00:46:34]:
No, it's a great reason to leave. And that's kind of a hot take because I think a lot of young people in particular.
Leslie [00:46:39]:
Oh, yeah.
Morgan [00:46:40]:
You're chasing a certain kind of vibe of church.
Leslie [00:46:42]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:46:44]:
And I don't know that, like, what if God's calling you to dig in and plant somewhere where the vibe's not what you want it to be yet.
Leslie [00:46:50]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:46:51]:
But you being there is a huge part of other people getting there.
Leslie [00:46:54]:
Yep. I think if the church. I think it's really a good thing when the church is multi. Generational and there's diversity in the church too. Like, I think those are great reasons to stay. Like when. If your church is only. Only which.
Leslie [00:47:16]:
And I'm not saying this is necessarily bad because it depends on your area too, and whatever. Because some areas, like you go to a college town and it's like mostly college students, you know, or some areas where it's like, oh, a lot more older people. But I think if you're at a church and you're like, there's just not, like, as, like, I want a church of all young people. Like, there's. It's like the grass is not greener. The grass is.
Morgan [00:47:40]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:47:41]:
Grassier.
Morgan [00:47:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. I like that.
Leslie [00:47:43]:
It's like, I. I just feel like they're. Find the spot that is good for you. Like, if theologically they're on track. If the community is there for you and available, I think that's great. But when you find that, like, sink your roots in.
Morgan [00:47:59]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:48:00]:
Like, I just think there's so much good that can come from placing roots somewhere.
Morgan [00:48:06]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:48:06]:
And what that can bring. Now get to a spot where you, like, where you can put your roots down. But when you do that, I just think there's so much good that comes from it. Like, we're seeing the benefits of that from being in a small group that originally we were like, this is so awkward. Like, I remember. Do you remember that? The early days of the small group.
Morgan [00:48:22]:
It was horrible. It's like pulling.
Leslie [00:48:23]:
It was horrible. We couldn't even drag our boyfriend friends to it because they, like, hated it.
Morgan [00:48:27]:
No, literally.
Leslie [00:48:28]:
And. But we stuck it through and through lots of different changes and things happening and kind of like refining that community. Now it's something that I'm like, I could not leave this. Like, I could not leave this if I wanted to.
Morgan [00:48:41]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:48:43]:
And I don't know. But that's that's with roots. That's like the thing that. And it doesn't happen overnight. Like, that's the biggest thing I've learned. Even coming back from college, restarting back at Bayside, it was like a whole new church.
Morgan [00:48:56]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:48:56]:
Because it had been four years and I came back and I was like, none of my friends are here. I used to, like, know everybody. I used to fully know the staff. And that was all different. And since I worked there, I was like, well, I have to go here.
Morgan [00:49:12]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Leslie [00:49:13]:
And it's funny the things that can develop over the years.
Morgan [00:49:16]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:49:16]:
But it just takes patience.
Morgan [00:49:17]:
Yeah. If I could go back and tell myself two things, it would be one of the things that you said, which is, hey, this is just kind of not optional. Like, faithfulness is. Is an attribute that we have when it comes to church. That would have taught me, okay, you're gonna have to figure out how to make this work. And that would have been good for me to know. The second thing I would have told myself is you're walking into the room and you're trying to figure out how everything happening fits you. And there's a certain degree to which you have to ask those questions.
Morgan [00:49:45]:
But at the same time, if everybody walked into a brand new church environment and your first or one of your first thoughts was, what's a way that I could make this better? Then it changes your perspective. You become like, you're not church shopping anymore.
Leslie [00:50:00]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:50:01]:
You're like, brainstorming how you could be a positive influence for where you're going. And I think that produces more of a staying spirit, too. I think about my parents right now. They were at the same church for their whole life. They moved, and now they're in that empty nester retirement phase. And the church that they've now plugged in at is actually not an empty nest or retirement church. And there's lots of empty nester retirement churches in the area. But I think partially when you come.
Leslie [00:50:32]:
To a new space, retirement churches, I love that.
Morgan [00:50:35]:
But that's. That. That it's kind of the vibe. Your point about multi generational churches, it's unfortunate because that's kind of a lost art. Like, people tend to go where there are people who look like them and are in their same life stage and season.
Leslie [00:50:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:50:49]:
So young adults are attracted to other young adults. Empty nesters are more attracted to empty nesters. And it's like my parents walked into the church that they're now attending and serving. And it's like, if you were to look around at the demographic of young families. They might have the tendency of thinking, I don't know if we're going to find community here because everybody's in such a different life season than us.
Leslie [00:51:08]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:51:09]:
But because of their experience with church and the years that they were served by people in their same community, their thought in walking into this new church was, oh, we are in a season of life where we can really invest in young families financially and with our time and with our spaces. And that's been their season. Like, it's a brand new area of service because of the mindset they walked into it with. And so the whole multi generational thing to me is, I think it's important is if you're a person and you're walking into a church right now where it just feels like everyone's younger than you, maybe that could be a community problem for you, but it also could be a community opportunity for you because young people love nothing more than to be served and loved on by someone who's older than them.
Leslie [00:51:56]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:51:57]:
Like, you actually could offer a lot to a young church as an older person and vice versa for young people. Like, the church that I worked at before Bayside had very few young adults. Actually, almost none. Mostly it was all families. But I worked my butt off serving families and watching kids and spending time with people around their tables as someone who had the time and energy to do so.
Leslie [00:52:23]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:52:23]:
And I learned a bunch that way, so that's good. I think it's important to call out. A lot of us are shopping because of, like, we want to find people are in our own age. Maybe there's a season for that, but there's also a season for service, too. And yeah, like, I think it's a. It's a asking God question. God, what's what? Where do you want me to be? Also, how can I best serve and contribute versus just being a consumer?
Leslie [00:52:50]:
Yes. I love that. I feel like we've talked about a lot of good things.
Morgan [00:52:54]:
Like, yeah, church hurt.
Leslie [00:52:56]:
Like, the reasons to leave.
Morgan [00:52:58]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:52:59]:
The reasons to stay somewhere. If you've been hurt, don't let that ostracize you from the church or take you away from God. Like, we told a story on the weekend a couple weekends ago about a guy who introduced himself to my dad and was like, I haven't been to church in 45 years because someone hurt me 45 years ago in a church. And it's kept me ever since. It's kept me from church. And he was basically like, I came today and I realized I let that hurt that person who hurt me. I let them affect 45 years of my life, which I didn't have to do. And so it was a really cool story, but a great reminder of, like.
Morgan [00:53:41]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:53:43]:
Don't let the pains of, like, this world and the pains that people inflict on you keep you from, like, living a life close to God, close to community. All of those things.
Morgan [00:53:54]:
So good.
Leslie [00:53:54]:
And then if you have been hurt in, like, even those minor ways of, like, that still hurt of, like, gossip.
Morgan [00:54:00]:
Or being excluded from something.
Leslie [00:54:01]:
Excluded and those types of things. Yeah. Don't use that to just become, like, a bitter, hardened person, but use that as, like, I'm gonna make sure this doesn't happen to someone else. Like, you be, like, the solution to the problem.
Morgan [00:54:13]:
The best way to feel like you're on an insider at a church is to pick up a volunteer badge.
Leslie [00:54:19]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:54:19]:
Because you're immediately.
Leslie [00:54:20]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:54:21]:
You're a part of the solution. It is crazy how quickly that that transforms your experience. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think that's a lot. Like, that covers, like, a wide range of church experience. But if there's one thing that I, like, really want to shake into people's heads, it's like, you.
Morgan [00:54:37]:
There is an element to this in which you can create the experience you want to have. So if you feel like that hasn't been your option to create the experience that you want to have, I think you probably haven't been engaging with your church experience like a contributor.
Leslie [00:54:53]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:54:53]:
You probably have been approaching it like a consumer.
Leslie [00:54:56]:
Yes.
Morgan [00:54:56]:
And that's always going to leave you disappointed because people are never going to give you what you want.
Leslie [00:55:00]:
Oh, yeah. It's like, you're showing up to church as, like, a restaurant. Like, what are you going to give me? Like, did I like the sermon today? Did I agree with everything? Whatever. I'm going to leave.
Morgan [00:55:08]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:55:09]:
Then that's just like, the backwards way of what church is supposed to be.
Morgan [00:55:12]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:55:13]:
So.
Morgan [00:55:13]:
And if you've been away from church for a season because maybe you're like that guy that Leslie just mentioned and something happened that hurt you. You. And it could be. Let's talk about it from the, like, any degree of being hurt. It could be that you experienced something horrific at the hands of a church member or a church leader, or it could be something as minor as, like, the church has just never felt like an inclusive place to me, and because of that, I just feel really odd and strange about it. I would first encourage you, like, never let bad experiences with the church immediately create distance between you and God. Because while God loves the church, God is not the church. God is God.
Morgan [00:55:57]:
God is perfection. God is holiness. He's the perfect display of welcomeness and unity and inclusiveness. And the church is not that. So I think, I think don't ever let the church be a deterrent from you connecting with God. And then when you feel like you have healed through some of the things you're experiencing, get back on the horse and re engage in a way. And if you have experienced something that has been like, really troublesome to the point where you're like, this really affects how I re approach the church.
Leslie [00:56:28]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:56:28]:
I think it's a great thing to have a conversation with somebody about that and be like, hey, I'm really wanting to re engage with this, but this has been my past experience. And let's let, let somebody help guide you through that. Don't just like, do that in silence because just like you have expectations coming into a church, it's actually really helpful to let your expectations be known so people know how to serve you.
Leslie [00:56:49]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:56:49]:
Just like a relationship, you know, like, you put your expectations out there in front of your spouse or your boyfriend or your friends.
Leslie [00:56:56]:
Yeah.
Morgan [00:56:57]:
Because you want them to know what would help you feel most loved. And you. We should be doing that with our church leaders and church body. They are not mind readers and they do not get it right all the time because like you said, they have lives and exhaustion and diagnoses and mental health issues all the same as you do. So communication is kindness. And we don't really do a good job of communicating our expectations, especially with the stuff that matters the most to us.
Leslie [00:57:25]:
And while our leaders are like, biblically, it says held to a higher standard. Those are standards that God holds them to.
Morgan [00:57:33]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:57:33]:
And sometimes we like to put ourselves in this, like, God's seat. And I think that just a reminder, like, they're people.
Morgan [00:57:42]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:57:42]:
My dad's one of them. It's like, he's not perfect. I know that.
Morgan [00:57:45]:
Yes.
Leslie [00:57:46]:
And so if you're going to a church and you feel yourself viewing the pastor as. It's a slippery slope when you start to view them as God.
Morgan [00:57:57]:
Yeah.
Leslie [00:57:57]:
And then you. Your whole world crashes because they say something you don't like or agree with or they do something that hurts you or says offends you or whatever. And it's like, we really have to in our minds, like, it's so easy for us to want to worship something. And that worship needs to be to God and he's just using a bunch of flawed people to, you know, do his work. So.
Morgan [00:58:22]:
And in my experience, when a church has, when a church has shown fruit of worshiping a person or a thing versus God, God has a way of allowing things to happen that that person's not God. God does. That's one thing that God's not.
Leslie [00:58:38]:
Do a Google search. It happens.
Morgan [00:58:39]:
Yes, yes, that. And, and that's actually kindness and love too. Because God cares enough about your worship that he wouldn't let you long term worship something that wasn't God.
Leslie [00:58:49]:
Exactly.
Morgan [00:58:49]:
Because that's not good for. It's counterfeit. Yep, totally. There's a million ways we could go with this, but that's probably a good start for today. So what you should do with this episode is apply what you learned, realizing that we are not talking to you specifically so we don't know the nuance of your situation. So if you heard something that you're like, yeah, but what about this? Well, that's, this is a generic conversation opener. It's not an every case scenario thing. But if you have certain things you want to be talked about, send messages about that dm.
Morgan [00:59:20]:
So we can do that.
Leslie [00:59:21]:
That's right.
Morgan [00:59:22]:
And we will see you next time on the Am I Doing this Right Podcast.
Leslie [00:59:27]:
Bye.
Morgan [00:59:28]:
Bye.