Am I Settling? w/ Charles + Abby Metcalf

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to the Am I Doing this Right Podcast. We are your hosts, Morgan and Leslie.

Leslie [00:00:05]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:05]:
And we have. Well, okay. I. I think we can say this with confidence. I know we can say this with confidence. These are super special guests that are on today 100%. And we also believe this is our first married couple guest that has come on the show.

Leslie [00:00:20]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:20]:
We would love to introduce. Well, you already probably know them. To the Am I doing this Right? Family, Charles and Abby Metcalf.

Charles Metcalf [00:00:27]:
We are so excited that you guys.

Abby Metcalf [00:00:29]:
Are happy to be here.

Leslie [00:00:30]:
I know. Thanks for being. I. I feel like I was like, I. I had to change. I had, like, this, like, red Thrive shirt on. We just came from the Thrive conference, like, fresh out of Thrive Conference, and I was like, I respect their style so much. I have to change.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:44]:
You guys are style icons.

Charles Metcalf [00:00:46]:
Oh, my gosh. I'm wearing all my brother's clothes, so.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:49]:
But tell me this, and your answers can be different. Totally fine. You're at home. You're getting dressed for the day. What? When you go into the closet to pick out the day's attire, what's your process? Are you analyzing how you feel?

Charles Metcalf [00:00:59]:
Yeah. Abby's going to do it last minute as we're trying to get out the store. Me, I have been picking out the clothes I wear the day before since fifth grade.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:10]:
Really?

Leslie [00:01:10]:
Seriously?

Charles Metcalf [00:01:11]:
Yes. So I pretty much do that to this day at varying levels. So I'm not like, I'll. Like, the night before, I'll be sitting there thinking. I'm like, oh, what's tomorrow? What day is it? I'll probably wear those jeans and that shirt. So, like, that's where it is now.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:23]:
Wow.

Leslie [00:01:24]:
You're not like a lay it out on your bed.

Charles Metcalf [00:01:26]:
No, no, no, no, no. That DNA has transferred to my daughter Jade. She does that.

Abby Metcalf [00:01:31]:
She lays it out on the laundry instincts with the shoes every night, and.

Charles Metcalf [00:01:35]:
She'S never missed on an outfit.

Leslie [00:01:37]:
Honestly, she's a miss.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:39]:
It really is a family thing. You all have great style.

Charles Metcalf [00:01:41]:
Well, thank you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:42]:
So it helps to know that that's part of your process.

Leslie [00:01:44]:
Wait, I have a question.

Charles Metcalf [00:01:44]:
Yeah.

Leslie [00:01:45]:
So I feel like a lot of people have really good style. They have, like, style icons. They're like this. I. These are people kind of. I've, like, taken bits and pieces of their fashion. Who are, like, your style icons.

Charles Metcalf [00:01:54]:
Chandler Barrington Metcalf.

Leslie [00:01:58]:
That's why I still like one.

Charles Metcalf [00:02:00]:
I've been taking clothes out of his closet since 2000. No, I. I definitely. I think I. So there's a story about Kobe Bryant who said that when they would get a rookie to the Lakers, he would practice with them and the. For the first, like, month they were on the team. And then he would take their best move. And then that's how he, like, became really good.

Charles Metcalf [00:02:20]:
Which is. I don't know if it's true or not, but it works for this example. Meaning that they're like, I feel like I pulled tons of random little things from tons of different people. So, like, I like more. So it's not. There's not one person. I would say that it was like the single person. Timothy Chalamet is having a great moment right now.

Charles Metcalf [00:02:38]:
So I definitely stole scarves from him. So, yeah, there's like. But it's more so like a bunch of little things from a bunch of different people.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:45]:
So, yeah, that's so, Abby, do you have siblings?

Abby Metcalf [00:02:48]:
I do have one little brother.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:50]:
Okay, a little brother. So this wouldn't have worked for you. But I do have a question because Leslie and I. Well, she has a twin sister. I have two sisters.

Charles Metcalf [00:02:56]:
Amazing.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:56]:
Is clothes sharing between brothers as complicated as it is between sisters?

Charles Metcalf [00:03:02]:
I don't know. I think nowadays maybe. Yeah, no, I think we've. Did I get mad at you when you take my clothes? I don't think so. Oh, maybe I do.

Abby Metcalf [00:03:09]:
Okay.

Charles Metcalf [00:03:10]:
Yeah, I do.

Abby Metcalf [00:03:10]:
Now, it's only complicated because we're in different states.

Charles Metcalf [00:03:13]:
So.

Abby Metcalf [00:03:13]:
Chandler, visit and leave with something. I'm like, where's that jacket of yours?

Charles Metcalf [00:03:16]:
Chandler steals my clothes.

Leslie [00:03:18]:
Or vice versa. I'm getting you back.

Abby Metcalf [00:03:20]:
We've had his watch directly.

Charles Metcalf [00:03:22]:
He'll be like. He'll be like, yo, can I wear that shirt? And be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like a month later, I'm like, where's that shirt? I'm like, chan, you got the shirt. He's like, oh, I think I packed it. Oh, God.

Leslie [00:03:30]:
It accidentally got caught in my shirt.

Charles Metcalf [00:03:32]:
Oh, my gosh. I've actually been wearing it every day for the last month.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:35]:
Answer a FaceTime call, and then you're in their shirt, and they're like, is that my shirt?

Abby Metcalf [00:03:38]:
And you're like, that's why you got.

Leslie [00:03:40]:
To answer like this.

Charles Metcalf [00:03:40]:
No, I'm going to be. I'm going to be taking this whole outfit home with me to pay back.

Leslie [00:03:43]:
So I love that. So when I. So I have an identical twin sister.

Charles Metcalf [00:03:48]:
That's amazing. So we would playing basketball like that one movie at Disney Channel. She did.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:54]:
We did.

Leslie [00:03:54]:
My dad was our coach. And he'd be yelling on the court. He's like, christy, take the ball this way. And I'm like, I'm Leslie.

Charles Metcalf [00:04:01]:
Oh, gosh, that's incredible.

Leslie [00:04:04]:
But when we would share clothes, we had a deal. It was like this unspoken deal. If anyone complimented you, you had to say it was your sisters.

Charles Metcalf [00:04:12]:
Oh.

Leslie [00:04:12]:
So I feel like, hey, nice, Jack. And I'm like, thank you. It's Christie's. And to this day, like, I'm 33 years old, to this day, if someone compliments me and I'm wearing something of hers, like, I've stolen it from her house, I'm like, it's Christie.

Charles Metcalf [00:04:23]:
That's amazing.

Leslie [00:04:24]:
That's a good deal.

Charles Metcalf [00:04:26]:
It's great.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:26]:
Okay. We want to hear about your family, so you can do however. However thorough of an introduction you want to do for yourselves. We want to hear about your family, too. So whoever wants to start. Totally fine, Queen.

Abby Metcalf [00:04:37]:
Mostly about our family or us as well.

Leslie [00:04:39]:
You and then your family.

Charles Metcalf [00:04:40]:
I'll start with a 10 minute bit on you.

Abby Metcalf [00:04:42]:
10 minute bit. Let's see.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:43]:
You have plenty of time.

Abby Metcalf [00:04:44]:
No, I'm an artist. I always been, like a very creative type. Started out as a florist with my grandmother. She owned. My grandparents owned a flower and garden center growing up. And so my first job was like, sweeping the floors for her. She would make all the creations and then started doing weddings with her and all that was super fun. Used to be a photographer, I'm a painter, all that kind of stuff.

Abby Metcalf [00:05:08]:
So we. I say all that. Our family is very creative. So now with, we have four kids and we love to create, like, a very creative, fun atmosphere for them at home. So our front office at the house is like a little art studio with a little piano in there. We homeschool our kids and they.

Charles Metcalf [00:05:27]:
They ruined our floors with the paint room.

Abby Metcalf [00:05:30]:
I was out there with like a little putty knife the other night scraping paint off the floor, thankfully.

Leslie [00:05:35]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:05:36]:
Yeah. We have four little kiddos that are all. We had them back to back. We had our son Arlo, and then when he was seven months old, found out we were pregnant with our little girl Luna. Oh, my goodness. And ended up loving the age gap. So then we did it two more times.

Leslie [00:05:50]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:51]:
Oh, cool.

Charles Metcalf [00:05:51]:
The theory was, if it's going to be crazy, let's just get it all done.

Leslie [00:05:54]:
Yes.

Abby Metcalf [00:05:55]:
Just knock it out. We always said two or four. After we had two, we were really trying to feel it out. We were trying to feel it out, like. And I was really like, I think we're done. We should be done. Let's be done. Like, we're not done.

Abby Metcalf [00:06:07]:
And so I wanted two more kids. I didn't want to be pregnant two more times. But yes, we did it. And it's. It's so fun. It's like the craziest, most wild, but also most wonderful thing in the world, having them all so close. Getting to see them become best friends and have these moments with each other.

Leslie [00:06:25]:
Oh, yes. Yep.

Charles Metcalf [00:06:27]:
Your best friends.

Abby Metcalf [00:06:28]:
WWE battles happening throughout the house. Absolutely.

Charles Metcalf [00:06:32]:
Wrestling, pulling of hair, punching. My daughter Luna has already got instincts on just a straight right jab. Did you just throw, like a right hook? That was amazing.

Leslie [00:06:42]:
She's like, I've perfected.

Charles Metcalf [00:06:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. She's been watching a lot of Creed.

Leslie [00:06:45]:
3, so that's hilarious. I love that. I grew up in a family of my. They had four kids under four years old.

Abby Metcalf [00:06:52]:
Okay.

Leslie [00:06:53]:
So it was like. Because we were twins, so.

Charles Metcalf [00:06:54]:
Oh, they had twins.

Leslie [00:06:55]:
But, like, it's the best. You're right. It's arch nemesis. But best friends in one.

Charles Metcalf [00:07:00]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:00]:
Which is awesome.

Leslie [00:07:01]:
I wouldn't change it. It was. It was so awesome.

Abby Metcalf [00:07:03]:
I'm wondering, I keep wondering, like, okay, when are these fights gonna stop? Like, the physical fight?

Charles Metcalf [00:07:08]:
I don't know if that'll ever happen.

Abby Metcalf [00:07:09]:
Our two year old is just ruthless right now. She'll, like, look at you. And her thing right now is saying, no, ma'am. Like, she'll say, no, ma'am and then hit you. It's like, what is going on?

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:19]:
That's awesome.

Leslie [00:07:20]:
That's so funny. I know. My mom used to say, she's like, all I want for my birthday is for you guys to not fight for one day.

Charles Metcalf [00:07:27]:
Did you give it to our meal?

Abby Metcalf [00:07:28]:
That would be am.

Leslie [00:07:29]:
We couldn't give it to her.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:30]:
Like, sorry, mom. That's the gift.

Leslie [00:07:31]:
I just gave a shirt you didn't want instead.

Charles Metcalf [00:07:33]:
Exactly. Here's a necklace from Claire's that cost $6.

Abby Metcalf [00:07:37]:
$6. Give us.

Leslie [00:07:38]:
Give us your kids names because I think they're really creative and beautiful.

Abby Metcalf [00:07:41]:
Arlo Phoenix. Arlo is the Italian variant of Charles. And then we got married in Phoenix.

Leslie [00:07:48]:
Oh, wow.

Abby Metcalf [00:07:48]:
So we actually picked that one on our honeymoon. We were like, sitting. Yeah. I still remember sitting there, like, looking out over Phoenix and being like, Phoenix would be a cool name. And choosing Arlo Phoenix. So we have Luna Rose.

Charles Metcalf [00:07:58]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:07:59]:
She was born in 2020. And so Luna, like, meaning a light in the darkness, the moon, all that. Rose is my middle name. We have Jade October Charles pick Jade.

Charles Metcalf [00:08:08]:
Yes. Because I've never met an ugly jade.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:12]:
That's a great reason.

Charles Metcalf [00:08:14]:
Every jade I Knew growing up was beautiful.

Leslie [00:08:16]:
That's so true. I've never met an ugly jade.

Charles Metcalf [00:08:18]:
Think about it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:19]:
Never.

Charles Metcalf [00:08:19]:
If you think about it, I've never met a snaggle tooth Jade, so I. Except for my own, because she's got some jagged teeth, but she does.

Abby Metcalf [00:08:25]:
She's missing a tune.

Charles Metcalf [00:08:26]:
Yeah, but no, that was my. I was like, every Jade I know is Bl Beautiful. And so I always like that as a name. And then October. She was born in October, which is amazing, but it's like, your favorite month. Abby was born in October as well.

Abby Metcalf [00:08:40]:
Her due date, I was due with her October 12th. That was my mom's due date with me. My birthday was October 5th, and then I ended up having her October 6th, so.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:48]:
Oh, my God, that is really cool.

Abby Metcalf [00:08:49]:
It was very special. And then we have Blue Sunday. We call her Sunny, though.

Charles Metcalf [00:08:53]:
Yeah. Blue Sunday. Sunday. Metcalfe grew up in church, doing church all the time, and is, like, favorite day of the week. So Sunday was, like, kind of a note to that. And then I don't know why we chose Blue. Blue was just cool.

Abby Metcalf [00:09:05]:
Yeah, you picked that, too.

Charles Metcalf [00:09:06]:
Hey, man, listen, I've got a lot of great ideas.

Abby Metcalf [00:09:08]:
It's good with Sunday, and these are.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:09]:
The best names ever. And I love that there's, like, there's meaningful parts to it, too. And then there's also, like, hey, Jade's not.

Charles Metcalf [00:09:16]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:16]:
And we're gonna.

Charles Metcalf [00:09:19]:
It works.

Leslie [00:09:20]:
It's a hot girl name.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:23]:
And this is really meaningful. I think that's really special.

Abby Metcalf [00:09:25]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:26]:
Wait, so, Charles, what about you? Anything for your.

Charles Metcalf [00:09:28]:
Is my name like, a hot girl name or what?

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:31]:
Where'd you get your name?

Charles Metcalf [00:09:33]:
I'm named after my grandfather. I'm the third, so I'm Charles Metcalf the Third. Third, but yes. Born in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and I grew up racing bmx, which is a random fact.

Abby Metcalf [00:09:44]:
Oh, cool. I love that he was, like, number three in the nation at one point when he was, like, 6 years old.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:50]:
That's awesome.

Charles Metcalf [00:09:50]:
Yep. So that. Then moved to Tulsa in 2013. Met Abby on Easter Sunday. She walked in. I had stalked her on Instagram and saw her, and I was like, oh, my gosh, That's a girl from Instagram. Yeah, that's all good.

Leslie [00:10:04]:
Relationships start.

Charles Metcalf [00:10:05]:
Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's really about me. I love doing creative stuff.

Abby Metcalf [00:10:10]:
We're pastors and.

Charles Metcalf [00:10:12]:
We're pastors. Yeah, I was getting there.

Leslie [00:10:14]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:10:15]:
I'm a pastor. I've been a pastor for the last 12 years, so that's amazing. And wrote a book. First book comes out in six weeks, so that's exciting. God chose me, so that's about me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:27]:
Yeah, man, that's so awesome. Wait, take us back. I know there was some Instagram stalking and it was Easter Sunday, but take us back to the moment that you guys met and maybe even, like, talk about some of the dating season. Did you know? When did you know all that? Kind of tell us the love story.

Abby Metcalf [00:10:42]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:10:42]:
So Abby, she won't tell you this. I'll tell this part of the story. But, Abby, I don't know if you remember this, but on Instagram, what is now the search page used to be, like, a suggested page. Remember, it was just a list of people.

Leslie [00:10:51]:
Yes.

Charles Metcalf [00:10:52]:
So, yeah, so Abby got suggested on Instagram when she was in high school. So I. I had just turned 20 years old. Abby was in high school, about to finish high school, and I literally found her on Instagram. Like, a suggested. Like, she had, like, 50,000 followers, and she was 18. So it was like. And back in 2014, that might as well been 10 million people.

Leslie [00:11:10]:
Yeah, gotcha.

Charles Metcalf [00:11:10]:
So I was like, this girl is clearly famous. And so I saw her. I just moved to Tulsa, so I was, like, looking for people just in the city and stuff. And so I found her through that. And then literally, I was sitting in church, and then I looked up, and I was like, that's the girl from Israel. Like, I did not. Oh, my gosh. And so I think we met, and then I casually, like, sent a dm, like, hey, I think we just met.

Charles Metcalf [00:11:31]:
Super crazy. And then Abby immediately responded, which she says she does, everybody, which is questionable, but she immediately responded like, oh, my gosh. Yes. Welcome to Tulsa. Here's a list of all the best places you should go eat.

Morgan May Treuil [00:11:45]:
Wait, that's awesome.

Abby Metcalf [00:11:46]:
And he thought that was, like, a clear, flirtatious thing.

Charles Metcalf [00:11:49]:
Well, I mean, just sending a guy a list of places to go eat. He's like, are you asking me to go on a date?

Abby Metcalf [00:11:54]:
So here's where she wants me to take her.

Charles Metcalf [00:11:56]:
Yeah. I was like, that's super cool, super forward. So, yeah, we went on a date at Thai Food. It's still our favorite Thai place. Today we went on a date, and then the next Monday, I'm sitting in my office, and my boss, he comes, he's like, hey, can you meet real quick? I was like, yeah, sure. He goes, did you go on a date with Abby? Henry was her name at the time, on Friday? And I was like, define date. What do you mean by date? Because I knew he. The way he Asked the question.

Charles Metcalf [00:12:23]:
I felt like I was in trouble. So he was like, you. I had just become the youth pastor, but he was like, you went on a date with her the day after she graduated high school. If you would have went a date the day before, you would have been a youth pastor dating a student. And I was like, she never came to youth ministry. Like, I didn't. All her friends were older, so I never.

Abby Metcalf [00:12:44]:
Yeah, two years apart. So it didn't.

Charles Metcalf [00:12:45]:
Yes. Like, I didn't think about it like that at all. But once he said it, I thought about it like that. And so then I panicked. Panicked. And this is where the story kind of goes bad. I literally, from that second, did not text her back or say anything to her. You ghosted for like, nine months.

Charles Metcalf [00:13:00]:
I ghosted her.

Abby Metcalf [00:13:00]:
But then when randomly. No, he'd randomly text me, be like, do you have any good playlists? And I'd be like, go away.

Charles Metcalf [00:13:07]:
Just keep a tab. Just keep it a post.

Leslie [00:13:08]:
Like, I already say my food.

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:11]:
But I do understand the shock of.

Charles Metcalf [00:13:13]:
Like, oh, yeah, he was definitely gonna fire me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:14]:
And I was terrified. So you're like, what do I do in this situation?

Abby Metcalf [00:13:18]:
Yeah, that first date, I really liked him. I went home, I told my family. I had never, like, I. To my family about someone that I liked. And so I.

Charles Metcalf [00:13:25]:
Because they were all just ridiculous individuals.

Leslie [00:13:28]:
Oh, we can go into that.

Abby Metcalf [00:13:29]:
No, just joking. They were fine people.

Charles Metcalf [00:13:33]:
They didn't make it, though, so.

Abby Metcalf [00:13:34]:
But literally, I was like, I really like him. He was so great. He's awesome. Blah, blah, blah. And then literally just like, crickets. So then I told all my friends, I was like, he's a player. We hate him. We don't like him.

Abby Metcalf [00:13:46]:
Then fast forward nine months, he reaches out, and he's. Because I was a photographer at the time, and he's like, hey, could you come take some pictures at the youth group? And I was like, sure, whatever.

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:56]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:13:57]:
I didn't know. I thought they were in need. Yeah. And then the second time he ever asked me to hang. Well, the next time we ever hung out, he literally helped my family pack up our whole house and move. I was at work, got home. My parents had him packing my room.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:12]:
Oh, my goodness.

Abby Metcalf [00:14:13]:
And I was like, a. A level one hoarder and a terrible. I said level one, though. It's not like, on a scale of one to 10, so this is like, a nightmare. It would.

Charles Metcalf [00:14:22]:
Yes, let's. You couldn't see her floor. Like, you walk. You open her door and had to.

Abby Metcalf [00:14:26]:
Like, jam it opened that Was true.

Charles Metcalf [00:14:27]:
Okay.

Abby Metcalf [00:14:28]:
But I had this little office area with all of my journals and books, and you're just in there, like, packing up my journal.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:34]:
This is so wrong. This is so vulnerable. You're just like, you're in my space.

Abby Metcalf [00:14:38]:
Instantly mad at my parents. I'm like, what's going on? My stepdad's like, we really needed help, so he offered help. I'm like, okay, we're moving.

Charles Metcalf [00:14:44]:
I was like, you need help? They were like, yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:14:46]:
So he kind of, like, started coming around the next time we hung out. After he helps my family move, we go to Oklahoma City to basically, like, meet his parents. And he tells me on the drive down, like, hey, I really liked you. But my. My pastor and boss pulled me aside and, like, explained the whole thing. And he was like, so I didn't talk to you for nine months. And in that moment, I had so much respect for him because I feel like I did not know a guy, especially at 20 years old, me being 18, of, like, that would actually listen to the authority in their life and not go behind and try to still text or we're trying to, you know, date in secret or something. And I feel like in that moment showed me a lot about the character that he had and the integrity that he had.

Abby Metcalf [00:15:27]:
And then a month later, I moved to la. So our. For the first, like, six months of our relationship was long distance. Okay. He asked me to be his girlfriend. Literally the day I drive off to, like, drive to California for an internship. And then two weeks after that, we were talking about getting married. So it was very.

Charles Metcalf [00:15:47]:
I was just broke for too long to get a ring. That's the only thing that slowed us down. Took me another year to save money. So, yeah, that was our. Yeah, she moved to la. I knew I wanted to ask her before she got out there and met some cool white dude who was surfing. So I was like, let me go ahead and lock this down. And funny story about that.

Charles Metcalf [00:16:05]:
She was. So. She does an internship, worked for a magazine. It was amazing. She did such a good job that they were like, yo, we want to hire you.

Abby Metcalf [00:16:11]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:16:11]:
And it's like her dream job at this magazine. She calls me. We've been dating for a little bit. She's like, yo, the magazine just offered for me a job. It's absolutely amazing. I'm so excited. Oh, my gosh, this is my dream. Blah, blah, blah.

Charles Metcalf [00:16:21]:
And then it was like, all right, I gotta go. Bye. And so I like, sitting there, like, so I guess we're done. Like, I live here. You're accepting a job in la. So, like, I'm like, okay. And so I think she kind of tell, like, I was kind of, like, bummed. So she calls me back and she's like, hey, I'm sorry.

Charles Metcalf [00:16:37]:
I just, you know, I was just excited, blah, blah, blah. And I love you. And this was like, after, like, a little bit, and I was like, oh, you do.

Abby Metcalf [00:16:45]:
Like, lots of shock.

Leslie [00:16:46]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:16:47]:
Yeah. It was a lot going on. But that was like, after that moment, we really did. We were like, man, this is amazing. You're awesome.

Leslie [00:16:53]:
So, yeah, I think, oh, that's so cool.

Charles Metcalf [00:16:56]:
Almost 10 years later, and here we are.

Leslie [00:16:58]:
That's amazing. We ask a lot of married couples. I mean, you're our first married couple that come together on the podcast, but we ask a lot of them. Like, in that dating phase, when you started to go, oh, I think I could marry this person, what was, like, the thing that kind of tipped the scale? Like, what was the moment? You're like, oh, actually, like, I could not see my life without this person.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:17]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:17:17]:
What would you say?

Abby Metcalf [00:17:19]:
I remember the first thing that comes to mind for me when you ask that. I remember in the previous relationship I was in, I remember getting to a point where I really liked him and. But kind of like, having this gut feeling of, like, I don't think that this is it for me. Like, I don't. I want it to be, but I don't think it should be. And I remember praying and literally asking God, like, if this is not my person, please show me. And within 24 hours, I had seen what I needed to see, and we were broken up. And it was.

Abby Metcalf [00:17:49]:
It was devastating. It wrecked me. I was 18 years old. So of course, at that moment, you're like, we're getting married. We're going to be together forever. So it was a very. It was tough. And then I remember with him praying that same thing, and then literally, oh, no, I know.

Abby Metcalf [00:18:04]:
And very scared. But I'm like, I'm not trying to just, like, waste years, you know? And we both, like, right out of high school, went into our careers, and so. And all of my friends were, like, 10 years older than me, so I don't know, I just felt like at a. A different place where I'm like, I'm not just trying to, like, date for fun. Like, I know what I want to do, and, like, I want somebody to do life with. And I prayed that prayer. And then literally within 24 hours, he. We went to eat dinner somewhere, and he, like, handed me a card.

Abby Metcalf [00:18:33]:
And in the card, it was just super encouraging. And he had, like, written down all of these, like, very specific things to me that he, like, really loved about me and said things that I had, like, prayed for, like, I want my future spouse to see these things, to say these things, blah, blah, blah. And there were just a lot of, like, very specific details in the car that I had prayed for. And I remember, like, later that night just, like, crying of, like, oh, my gosh. Like, I. I prayed for that. And I think you just showed me that sign, but.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:04]:
So cool.

Abby Metcalf [00:19:05]:
And ultimately, I knew that he listened to the Holy Spirit in his life. And that was, like, the big thing for me. It's like, because I. We always say this too, of. We're not really the type of people that believe there's one person for every person in this world. Because then if one person messed it up, the whole world's messed up. And, yeah, one person misses it. One person misses billion people miss.

Abby Metcalf [00:19:28]:
And we know some people have missed it, but of, like, it could work, you know, with multiple people is my assumption of, like, you could have a good life in different scenarios. But. But knowing that ultimately, as we're going through life making decisions, the thing that you fall back on is you hear the Holy Spirit. You trust him. What God tells you to do, you do it. And we both, like, knew that about each other. And I think that was one of the biggest things for me that just let me, like, trust of like, okay, we're going to. We're not gonna get this right.

Abby Metcalf [00:20:04]:
But I know that we both wanna follow God with everything inside of us, and if we both have that, that then I think we'll be good. And so far, my theory has been right.

Leslie [00:20:13]:
So cool, so awesome.

Morgan May Treuil [00:20:14]:
That's great.

Charles Metcalf [00:20:15]:
I think for me, my first thing I always say about Abby, which is still true to this day, is it was very attractive to me that she didn't need me. And I think there are a lot of people in dating that they're looking for someone to be the answer to all their problems and fulfill their. Like, if I won't be fully myself until I have someone else. And I felt like Abby was fully herself, doing what she was made to do, traveling the world, being a photographer, confident, and didn't need me. And so it was like a. I liked the confidence that she carried, the, like, the integrity of that. Of, like, I know who I am, I know what I want, and I'm gonna do it. And so it's kind of like, you can come if you Want to, but I'm gonna be great whether, you know, here or not.

Leslie [00:20:57]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:20:58]:
And so it was a very. I think just that level of confidence was very attractive to me. And, like, the sureness and very driven and, like, pursuing what she wanted and extremely creative and those things. And so I think that was, like, a big thing that has been true throughout our whole marriage is just a. A strength that is, like, I am strong by myself, and, like, you add to me, but you don't complete me. Like, you add to what I already have and who I already am. And I think a lot of people can lose themselves in that person. And, like, oh, they may.

Charles Metcalf [00:21:30]:
And absolutely. Like, we've made each other better. And, you know, Bible says to become one of those things, but I think it, like, it says that the Bible says two become one. So that's one whole person. One whole person. Not the halves become one. So I think for me, that was a beautiful thing about her was, like, she was just confident and knew what she wanted to do, and it required me to be a better man to be with her. Like, it wasn't like, oh, man.

Charles Metcalf [00:21:53]:
Yeah, she loves me, and I can kind of do whatever. It's like, oh, I gotta have my stuff together. Cause this is, like, a woman who knows who she is. She runs her own business. Like, confident. So I think that was. That was like, a big part of it for me.

Leslie [00:22:05]:
That's really cool. So, Abby, take us back then, because I love what you said about her. Kind of that confidence that she had where she wasn't just, like, sitting around waiting, being like, I'm just gonna do nothing until I can find my person, you know, and. But you said you had come out of a, like, a really tough breakup, where I think a lot of people would go, well, I'm gonna latch on to, like, this new relationship, or I'm just gonna kind of stay put. How did you, like, find the confidence? Maybe it's just, like, something that's always been in you, but how did you find that confidence? Kind of in the midst of, like. Like, a hard breakup, but going like, no, I'm gonna go live my life. I'm gonna. What? What was that, like, stirred up inside you?

Abby Metcalf [00:22:40]:
I think even in high school, like, I was so. Like, my senior year, I was just so ready to do what I know I wanted to do. Like, I loved art so much, and I knew I was gonna do something with it. And so I knew that I wanted to be a photographer already in high school. I got to do fun stuff of, you Know, like starting to do wedding photos and. And then, yeah, I got the opportunity right after high school to go do this internship in la. And I don't know, I think it. Well, I mentioned before that my grandparents owned a flower and garden center.

Abby Metcalf [00:23:14]:
And I think seeing so many people in my family creating their own businesses and having all that, it just really like led me to believe, like, I can do whatever I want to do and I can be whoever I want to be. And I think I had a very clear vision of who I wanted to be.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:29]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:23:29]:
And the artist that I wanted to be, the woman that I wanted to be. And I had some really awesome friends I mentioned that were like 10 years older than me and stuff like that. So I don't know, I feel like I was just surrounded by very cool, creative people and confident women, which really helped me as a 18 year old see that, like, there's a lot more than what I, you know, hoped would be in that relationship or whatever. It's like, oh, this world is so big and there's so many opportunities and I'm not. You know, there were definitely times feeling sad and grieving that and all those things. But I think the whole time I just kind of knew, like, I am trading this for something better. Like, something better is coming. And I just kind of had that mindset.

Abby Metcalf [00:24:13]:
And I think it's a mindset we both have carried. Even now, when tough things happen, we genuinely believe it's like, no, if there's a loss, I believe it's because God knows I need something different. And so just trusting in that.

Charles Metcalf [00:24:25]:
I think there's a we both, which I think I just recently changed my. But we both, for the past, not even that long, maybe three or four months, had a screensaver on our phone, the same one, and it says everything I lose creates space for the things I need. And I think that mindset is such, like, it's so just connected to what you're saying of like, there is a world where you view all the losses and the hard things you go through as taking from you. Or there's a world where you view it as great, like God didn't think I needed it in this moment. And so it's super encouraging that it's like, okay, great. If that relationship leaves my life, it's because God felt like they didn't need to be in my life, not, oh gosh, I've been abandoned and I'm lonely. And those are all true. But a question my friend says all the time is what also might be True.

Charles Metcalf [00:25:07]:
So like it is true they left and it hurt. It also could be true that God's creating space for a new friendship that you wouldn't have space for if you were still their best friend. Like, it is true that you went through a hard time and you maybe don't know who you are. It is also true that the best time to find out who you are is at a time when you don't know who you are. Like, so I think that question specifically from them has become a big deal for us when we go through anything and that's not just relationships, but disappointment, losing things, things not going how you planned. It's just asking that question, like what? What also might be true about this.

Morgan May Treuil [00:25:38]:
So I'm glad you said that because I do think that we live under the constant fear that God doesn't have something better and therefore we white knuckle things that are actually not either not good for us or they're not God's best for us and we miss out. So what I gather from you guys especially like, that I love that screensaver. I love your friends quote too. It's like you guys have lived, it seems like, and I know it's not, not always perfect, but it seems like you've learned to live very surrendered lives. Like I want, I want what God has for me, not my own best version of that. Can you talk about the journey to getting to that spot a little bit of like, how do you live open handed where you're like, I'm genuinely okay with what God thinks is best, even if it's a total left turn for my plans. Cuz I'm thinking about you in la, getting this awesome dream, like job opportunity and then I don't know if you stayed in LA or not. I don't know what the end of the story is, but like that's a surrendered moment of God.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:32]:
So talk that like, what is that? How has that been in your life?

Abby Metcalf [00:26:34]:
Well, I remember you mentioning the LA thing. I remember calling my like mentor at the time sobbing in a Target parking lot, being like, this was my dream, this is everything I came here for. Literally. The owner of the magazine offered it to me, said, what can I do to get you to stay? And I'm sitting in the car sobbing because I'm like, why do I feel like I shouldn't do it and why do I not want it anymore? This is everything I wanted and now I am here and I don't want it and I don't feel like it's for me. I Don't feel like it' mind. I think you should talk about Eden.

Charles Metcalf [00:27:07]:
Eden.

Abby Metcalf [00:27:07]:
Because that is a huge, pivotal surrender moment.

Charles Metcalf [00:27:11]:
Yes. So there's a quote that I heard that says, I wish everyone could get everything they ever wanted to realize it's not what they think it is, and it's not what they need. And so I think that's just, like, true for that moment. There are some things that you think, when I get this, then I'll be blank, and it's just not true. When you become content with wherever you are, that's when really you find those things. But eden was a. So ministry I started at, did an internship at 18, then transferred to another part of the internship at 19, and right when I turned 20 years old, became a youth pastor. So 12 almost.

Charles Metcalf [00:27:46]:
Yeah, 12 years ago. And so. But with that, Ben was a youth pastor for three and a half years. And me and Abby have both always had people in our life that are, we say, close to us but far from God. And it was just intentional, some of it, and then some of it, just natural friends. Like, we just always held space and kept space for friends like that that were just like, oh, man, we love and through art and design and stuff like that. So. But pretty much, I felt like, man, I don't want to do the church thing and not reach all my friends that I love.

Charles Metcalf [00:28:14]:
Like, the church I was at was an amazing church and made me the leader I am today. And it was also true that none of my friends who were into fashion or owned coffee shops or design or whatever wanted to come to the church. It just wasn't their vibe. And so I just remember there being a moment where it's like, if I'm going to spend all this energy and. And, you know, to what you said, surrender to what God wants me to do. I wanted to impact people that I really love, not just like, these random people. I don't know. So from that, we were like, I think we're gonna start a church.

Charles Metcalf [00:28:43]:
And we were 23 and 21.

Abby Metcalf [00:28:46]:
First year of marriage.

Charles Metcalf [00:28:47]:
Yeah, yeah, first year of marriage. We've married a year. And it was like, I think we're gonna do this. We're gonna start a church. And so about a year later, eight months later, is when we actually get around to about a year when we actually get around to doing the. The process of it. But we had friends who moved from New York City, were a part of a big church out there. They moved there to help us start it.

Charles Metcalf [00:29:06]:
Two of the friends quit their job and Helped us start it. We had our first event ever. We planned for like 30 people, like an interest night. And 110 people showed up. We got shut kicked out of the venue. The first night we had it, I was making all the graphics in like, not even Photoshop, but on like PowerPoint or something. You know, like random apps on my phone.

Leslie [00:29:29]:
Anyway, like a watermark.

Charles Metcalf [00:29:31]:
No, literally, it's like did not pay for full version. So anyways, we, we start this and to our surprise, it's really working. We, you know, every single night we had more people come. And under a year we had over 200 people coming to these. We called them gatherings. But it was a once a month service where, you know, we'd have worship. My friend would lead worship. Our friend named Abby actually.

Charles Metcalf [00:29:54]:
It was so cool, but like doing an amazing job. Lead worship. And our friend Adriana, Asia, Adrian play the guitar. Abby Lee worship. And then I get up and preach. And so it was going super awesome. And it was, honestly, I can look back on it now. It was just very cool.

Charles Metcalf [00:30:07]:
We were like super young. It was a super cool church. We met downtown in a super cool venue. And so it was really one of those moments where it's like, man, this is working. This is what we wanted to do. And like, we're popping and we're the new cool church. And so it was just super fun. And so we're doing it.

Charles Metcalf [00:30:22]:
And in the middle of that, that there's a kid that starts coming to the church. His name's Grayson. And his big brother was the person he was asking to bring him to church. His big brother's name was Mike. So long story short, meet Grayson through Grayson. I'm scrolling on Instagram one day and I see this guy preaching. This black dude, he's preaching. It's 2016 and there's a loud hip hop beat under him preaching.

Charles Metcalf [00:30:44]:
He's screaming. Doing an illustration is Michael Todd. And at the time, he has like maybe 900 followers on Instagram. And he's just doing his thing. Just became the pastor of a church called Transformation Church a year ago. And so I DM him just because I knew Grayson. And I was like, Grayson was one of the photographers at the church. I was like, yo, I met your little brother.

Charles Metcalf [00:31:03]:
I have no idea what I'm doing. This church is growing. Can I ask you some questions? So we so humble, by the way. It's really cool. That's awesome. So I just like, we go to coffee and I have a list of questions and I sit down and it's so funny I always say this part, but it's like we meet at like 8am in the morning. He's in like a purple suit. I'm like, what are you doing in a purple suit on a Tuesday so early? There's no reason you should be wearing a purple suit.

Leslie [00:31:26]:
You're like, you're not one of my fashion. Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:31:28]:
He's like, he's just doing his thing. And so that's awesome. I sit down, I have my list of church planner questions, and he ignores all of them. First question he asked, he says, when's that last time you took Abby on a date? And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, he talks to me about dating your wife. He's like, don't ever stop dating your wife. And then I'm like, okay, okay. Go to ask him another question. He's like, no.

Charles Metcalf [00:31:45]:
Next thing. Second question. Never met him before. When's the last time you looked at porn? And I was like, who are you? Like, I don't. What the heck is going on? And he's like, hey, man, you gotta live pure. You're under a lot of pressure. You got like. And for an hour and a half, just talked about me, asked about me.

Charles Metcalf [00:32:00]:
How was. How was I? I was doing. How's my soul? How am I handling the pressure of being like. And so it was very different, but it was also like, dang, nobody's asking about me right now. You know, like, nobody's asking those questions. Questions.

Morgan May Treuil [00:32:11]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:32:11]:
So the next month, hey, yo, I got more questions, blah, blah. So we just start doing this fast forward. To make a long story short, he invites me to go to this conference with him. Kind of like what thrive was just like, hey, come with me, I'll pay for it. Feel like you're supposed to come. We're just gonna sit and learn about how to be a pastor. And so we're sitting there in the middle of a session, I feel like I have this impression on my heart that's like, hey, shut down Eden and go serve at his church. And I was like, like, no.

Charles Metcalf [00:32:37]:
I was like, nope, not doing it. The church is working. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And really fought and wrestled with it through the rest of the day. And then that night ended up telling him, I'm like, yo, this is crazy. I don't even know what's happening, but I feel like I feel this. And I don't know what that means. He's like, well, let's drive to my friend's house.

Charles Metcalf [00:32:52]:
We drive to his friend's house. His name's Tim. We sit down with Tim. We're talking. And long story short, I get back in town to Tulsa. Abby had just done a wedding workshop that she was doing. Got named number one workshop in the United States. It's just everything's going really, really well.

Charles Metcalf [00:33:08]:
And I sit down, I tell her, hey, babe, I think we're supposed to shut down church and go serve. You know that guy Mike I met? You know, like, it's not like, yeah, yeah. It's like. It's not like. It's. This is the. None of these things make sense at the time. But I'm like, I really think this is what we're supposed to do.

Charles Metcalf [00:33:23]:
And her response, which is one of the greatest things she said earlier about, like, trust in the Holy, Holy Spirit. Spirit. She said, hey, I got done telling the story. And I'm, like, bawling, crying, because I'm so disappointed. Like, this is what we wanted to do. This church is growing. We got $100,000 in the bank. We signed a lease on a building.

Charles Metcalf [00:33:38]:
Like, everything's working. And I also felt the, like, dang, all the people who said we couldn't do it are gonna be right now. You know what I'm saying? Cause everybody was like, wait, you're way too young. Which we definitely probably were. But, like, all the things that were happening, it is also part of my pride was like, dang, this works and this sucks, and it would be different to shut it down if it wasn't working. You know what I'm saying? But it's working and sucks. So I tell her, and I'm super emotional, and I'm like, so, what do you think? And she goes, right when I sat down, Holy Spirit told me that whatever he says, trust him and just that. So she was like, I trust you.

Charles Metcalf [00:34:09]:
If this is what you feel like we're supposed to do, we'll do it. And I just remember being so emotional because I was like, dang, this is our life. And, like, so much trust in you for you to put that on me. So, anyways, we do our last gathering. It was called Faith Fight Finish. And I preach a sermon about Abraham and Isaac and how. How if God gives you a dream, it's always his, so he gets to tell you what to do with it. And I said, yo, this church was always God's dream.

Charles Metcalf [00:34:32]:
And after a year into doing it, God told us to shut it down. We're gonna go serve at this church. At the time, it's Transformation Church. At the time, church is 300 people. Nobody knows who Mike is. It's not like, oh, it's Transformation Church. It's just a random church in the hood of our city.

Morgan May Treuil [00:34:44]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:34:44]:
And so we had been, like, once.

Charles Metcalf [00:34:46]:
We had been once.

Abby Metcalf [00:34:47]:
I don't think I had been once.

Charles Metcalf [00:34:48]:
To the church on a Sunday. She had been. Met Mike, I think, once. And so. So anyways, we shut the church down. We had. I preached a message. I was like, yo, this is going to be our last service.

Charles Metcalf [00:34:57]:
If y'all want to come to us with tc, we're serving. Serving over there and serving genuinely. Like, no paycheck, no nothing. Just like, hey, if you. If you still want to be a part of a church downtown, there's three other churches in the back that we found that are here in this downtown city. You can meet with their pastors and serve. And so we did that. And I served for six months, no pay.

Charles Metcalf [00:35:16]:
And I remember calling Mike, being like, yo, I'm going to have to change my hours at the church. And it was every day, nine to five.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:21]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:35:22]:
And I was like, I'm going to have to change my hours of. I'm going to have to start doing Uber. And he was like, wait one second. And so the next Monday, they call me, and they're like, hey, we want to hire you as, like, the creative director at the church. And then six months later, a sermon that me and Mike actually wrote together called Relationship Goals. We wrote it, and I was. He was asking. He was like, I'm about to start this series on relationships.

Charles Metcalf [00:35:41]:
And he's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, yo, the church was called Eden. I only preached out of Genesis for, like, the first, like, year of it. And so I was like, yo, there's a story, like, with Adam and Eve, There's a bunch of stuff God gave to Adam before he gave him a person. And I've been working on it, so we write it together. He preaches that sermon in August, when we had met before we shut church down. December of that year, a girl posted on. On Twitter.

Charles Metcalf [00:36:01]:
In 24 hours, it has 4 million views. And then six months later, our church was 6,000 people. Wow. And so that's how we got to TC. So a big, long story to say that moment really taught us, like, and I think it's this. What I've realized is sometimes what you're surrendering or what you have to give to God is not bad. It's just not the best. And I think a lot of people we make things like good or bad, or like, this is God's will or the devil's will.

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:34]:
Yes.

Charles Metcalf [00:36:35]:
And I just don't think that's true all the time in some cases.

Abby Metcalf [00:36:38]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:36:38]:
Like, if you're like, should I be doing crack? It's like, no, don't do crack. That's a definite.

Leslie [00:36:42]:
Like, these are just bad.

Charles Metcalf [00:36:44]:
Yes, crack is bad. Let me say that. But. But also, I think. And I say that because I think people, there's so much pressure in the church. Even young people I talk to so many times that are like, I don't know what school to go to, and I don't know which one is God's will. And I'm like, instead of God being over here, like those guys in New York who are flipping cups trying to trick you, what if he's standing next to you and saying, hey, one, the premise is, no matter where you go, I'll be with you. The Bible says you make your on the highest mountain or at the pit of hell, I'll be with you.

Charles Metcalf [00:37:12]:
Yeah, so what if God's next to you saying, hey, let's talk about the decisions we have to make make. No matter where you go, I'll be with you. And there are things that are better and best. And so I think for us, we learned that a year into our marriage that, like, we could have done the church. And I actually had told a guy that I know today that we talked to early on. He said, man, like, if you keep going with this church, it's going to work. And, like, it's going to work really, really well. He's like, I don't know how you'll deal with the pressure, though, in five years when your church blows up and you're only, you know, 26 years old.

Charles Metcalf [00:37:40]:
Like, I don't know. So. But it wasn't like, oh, this is bad. This is not God's will. This is terrible. It was, oh, yeah, God would have been with us. And we had a lot of really hard issues. But now the Bible says wisdom is proven right by its results.

Charles Metcalf [00:37:52]:
So now it's like, we've been in tranquil church eight years. Our family has flourished. Mike is one of our best friends in the world. We went through ups and downs, but, like, who we are as people are completely better because we chose God's best.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:05]:
And I think it's amazing. What's cool, too. I didn't realize. So when you went, you weren't working at the church. You weren't volunteering your time. So then. Then it's a move that makes in some ways, like, logistically, doesn't make the most sense. And what I love about that is that sometimes the surrender God's calling to.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:23]:
Calling you to, you don't see an.

Charles Metcalf [00:38:25]:
Immediate, like, majority of the time. You know what I'm saying? I think it's so easy to. It's easy to assume that God's blessing means it's an externally viewed promotion.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:39]:
Yes.

Charles Metcalf [00:38:40]:
And that's not true. Like, the marker of our faith is a man who was 33 years old and murdered for what he. And then everybody who followed him was then murdered and then they persecuted. Like, so it's like, it's a contrast that me and her have talked about before where it's like, now church is about like, oh, follow your calling and God's gonna take you to the blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's like the call was like, hey, your family's gonna leave you. Everybody's gonna hate you. I'm gonna get killed in a couple months. Wanna come? Like, John's like, you wanna do it? And they're all like, yeah, we already got rejected by the rabbi.

Charles Metcalf [00:39:11]:
Like, so I just think.

Leslie [00:39:12]:
Totally.

Charles Metcalf [00:39:13]:
I just think it's such a. We have to remind ourselves and our friends and like, yeah, I do think God blesses you. I do think he takes care of you. And we've had amazing things in our life. But also, let's be reminded, like, what the marker of our faith is and it's sacrifice. And in this world, you will have trials. And they hated me, so they're gonna hate you. Like all the scripture Jesus said.

Charles Metcalf [00:39:35]:
And so, yeah, I think we learned that early on that, like, yeah, this is gonna be difficult and there's gonna be sacrifices, but I also know who I am without him. So, like, I think that's another part of it. If people are. We drastically overestimate who we think we are. And so I think those are things I know. It's like, I am not good enough without God's will. Like, I'm not. Like, I'm talented, I'm creative.

Charles Metcalf [00:40:00]:
I got some ideas. But, like, the reason we're both where we are is because of God. And I'm keenly aware of that. Like, and so I think that's why we have tried to fight to be as close to that as we can.

Abby Metcalf [00:40:09]:
I think it's important too. We've talked a lot. Even something that we're, like, navigating right now in our life currently is. We've talked so much of, like, how in our Western culture, it's so easy to think like when you hear like the blessings of God. It's like it's taking us to more and better and bigger. Yeah, that's it's. And even with life it's like AI makes things like instantly fast even I feel like honestly after the microwave, it's like things we just expect not done now then something. It's almost ingrained in us now.

Abby Metcalf [00:40:44]:
Like we need things instantly and instant gratification and all of that. And what we have been talking about lately is like we want to make decisions that bring us to more fruit. And it's like things that God asks us to do, it might not feel bigger and better. And it's like that is not the promise of God that he's going to give us a bigger home and a bigger salary and a bigger blah, blah, blah. But it's like is this decision what I'm stepping towards, what I feel like God's calling me towards? Is it producing more peace in my life? Is it producing more trust in God? Is it producing more patience, more gentleness, more self control? And in that sense, sense, yes. Your, your walk with Jesus should be producing more, more fruit and but like more of these external things, that's just not, it's not like a easy trade like that.

Leslie [00:41:29]:
That's so true.

Morgan May Treuil [00:41:30]:
So good.

Leslie [00:41:31]:
This is really good. I love. I know. I feel like I'm.

Morgan May Treuil [00:41:34]:
This is so good for myself.

Leslie [00:41:35]:
I'm like now I got a new list of questions that are helping me. But I feel like we do talk a lot about discernment and like discerning God's voice.

Abby Metcalf [00:41:43]:
What does it.

Leslie [00:41:44]:
And sometimes I over complicate it myself. Like I, I go, I swing to the side of, of every single tiny decision matters. Like it's like God, do I take a left here or do I take a right? It's like, or it's. Or we just go, oh, the only big decision that God cares about is who you marry. You know, I think we sometimes go too far on either side. So for people who are struggling with that, how do you find like what have you found to be like the balance of that in your life? Of like I need to actually discern like how much does God care? We obviously know God cares about everything, but how much does he? Is he actually telling you? You know, and discernment, what does that, what does he think about that?

Charles Metcalf [00:42:21]:
I think you want to go, I.

Abby Metcalf [00:42:24]:
I feel like God wants to be in as much as you want to let him into. Is my very good Personal experience. I feel like there's even. Yeah, I feel like I'm always talking to him just. And I don't hear. I think a lot of times you hear people talk on podcasts or in sermons, and they talk about, like, God speaking to them, and you think that God. Like, they audibly hear God be like, abby, take a right. It's like, that's not.

Abby Metcalf [00:42:54]:
If you wondered what I think God sounds like. For me, though, I've, like, even from a young age, I feel like just that I don't. Like, I don't even. I'm doing this because it just feels like there's something, like, inside of me where it is.

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:09]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:43:10]:
That is like, yes or no. And I know when it's a no. And when I tried to make it a yes. And I know what that felt like, and it was not good. And it led me to anxiety, and it led me to being nervous and not. And I know when I felt peace about things that were hard decisions to make. Charles was talking about him not taking a salary from the church. At first, that was possible for us because I had my wedding photography business, and I was doing workshops and all this stuff.

Abby Metcalf [00:43:41]:
And then literally, in the middle of that season, felt like God was telling me, hey, like, stop taking weddings and give the workshops to your business partner. Just give it to her. And. And I.

Charles Metcalf [00:43:55]:
Which was not a financially good decision.

Abby Metcalf [00:43:57]:
It was. Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:57]:
It didn't make sense.

Charles Metcalf [00:43:59]:
It was a massive thing. It was just like, we don't have it.

Abby Metcalf [00:44:02]:
And I remember feeling that then waking up the next morning and the workshop being, like, this article from the Best Wedding Blog, that it was like, the number one wedding workshop in the US and just being like, what could possibly be going on? But knowing this is what I feel like God is calling me to do in carrying that peace. And I. I even, like, when we talk to our kids about it, I. I want them to know that it's like, yeah, God cares about the simple things. And, like, as much as we want to talk to him, as much as we. I feel like the more time you spend with him, the more you know his nature. Just like a friend, you know? And so I think a lot of it, and even of being in the word, like, when you want. I think oftentimes we want God to speak to us when.

Abby Metcalf [00:44:50]:
When there is so much he's already said that we could learn from, and we want, like, something new and something very specific. When it's like, hey, like, let's read scripture and see what kind of character do I need to have in this decision, what kind of. How do my thoughts. Where do my thoughts need to be fixed? What do they need to be fixed on? When I'm like, going through this, and I think it's a lot more about who we are becoming than the actual. Is it like he said, is it this school or is it that school? It's like, okay, what if this process is teaching me how to trust you in high stress situations or when I have a big decision to make? Am I going to be super stressed until I figure it out, or am I going to be able to truly trust you? And that's what I mean when I say I think he wants to be in all of it with us, because I think there's constantly things that he can be teaching us about ourselves.

Charles Metcalf [00:45:48]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Leslie [00:45:49]:
That's really good.

Charles Metcalf [00:45:50]:
So good. I think, I think there are a couple, like, important, like, perspectives when talking about discernment and, like, hearing God and his will and all those things. And I listen to, like, a lot of, like, debates and stuff on TV just to, like, learn on how people communicate their argument and perspective on stuff. But one of the things that they do in a debate is before they start, they say, let's define our terms. So when we say, like, how do we discern the will of God? God, there's a lot of words in there that we are. That when in church culture, that we are assuming, we all think is the same thing. So, like, how do you know, like, people feel like, well, I feel like, how do I know when God speaks to me? And it's like, well, when people say God spoke to me 99.9% of the time, what they mean is they had some sort of feeling somewhere in their head or heart that they kind of thought was the right way. And then after they made the decision, the fruit of the decision was.

Charles Metcalf [00:46:44]:
Was so obvious that then it was confirmed that, oh, that was probably God.

Leslie [00:46:49]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:46:49]:
But, like, when you say that just in general culture, it's like, oh, God spoke to me. It's either, oh, I knew, like, I knew it was God. And I just. None of the decisions that have produced the greatest fruit in my life, I knew 100% it was God. None of them. Yeah, it was a risk. Like, I loved Abby and fell in love, but that decision is still a risk. Like, with all your knowing, with all your whatever, 99% of people who got married knew it was the person until they didn't like.

Charles Metcalf [00:47:17]:
And so I'm saying that to say I do think to Abby's point is so true that God wants to be in as much as you'll let him in. But also, I think he's such a kind father that he. To me, I think it's more fruitful to view as I'm making a decision with God, as he wants to guide me in every decision. Not he's seeing if I'm going to miss it or not. Because if I. There's no decision when I'm like, so, Arlo, do you want to play soccer or do you want to play flag football? Yeah, I'm not asking him to trick him or to see if he really knows what I want to do. It's like, why would I be tricking him? Why would I be trying to have one decision where he completely loses himself and forgets who he is? And one decision that's like, this is perfect and this will make your life great. Yeah, I wouldn't ever set that decision before my son.

Charles Metcalf [00:48:03]:
So I think a lot of times we make God decisions. Like, although there's either this or there's is that. And it's like, yes, sometimes it is that. But I found many times it's more fruitful to view. It's like, man, there's a better decision here, and God's gonna help me figure that out. And so a couple practical things I think is people, like, you need people in your life to help you do that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:20]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:48:20]:
You can't like making isolated decisions. I think it's just a bad idea. And so I think it takes people to. To do that. The other thing is, I think, like, for us, peace is a big thing. And it's. Peace is translates another term you gotta define. Like, peace doesn't mean easy.

Charles Metcalf [00:48:32]:
Peace doesn't mean it makes sense. Peace means, you know, and you're knower. And it's kind of like, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't make you anxious and you're not trying. Yeah. You're not trying to force it. So for us, that's a big thing, is peace. And then, like, I think at some point, you just got to make the decision.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:49]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:48:50]:
So, like, I have found it more fruitful to make the decision and find out than to wait to see if I made the perfect decision.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:57]:
Yes.

Charles Metcalf [00:48:58]:
And I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to be like, is this person that I went on one date with my husband? And it's like, I don't know, but, like, just go on a date and see what happens. Like. And so I think that would be that Would be. Mine is like, practically, is like, pray about it. And the Bible tells us, tells us that. Pray about everything, don't worry about anything, talk to the people, and then trust your peace. And at some point you gotta jump. Like, you just gotta do it.

Charles Metcalf [00:49:21]:
And then you learn. Oh, that's how I learned about God. I only learned after I made a bunch of mistakes.

Abby Metcalf [00:49:27]:
And so I think it's a beautiful visualization as well. Well, to. As you're processing these things, if someone right now is thinking of, like, I have these two big decisions, what do I do? God is not standing over you. Like, which one will she?

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:41]:
What are they going to do?

Abby Metcalf [00:49:42]:
Picture him standing with you, even holding your hand of like, hey, which one are we going? Which one are we doing? And like, that is just a much more freeing perspective that allows you to move and allows you to not stay where you are.

Charles Metcalf [00:49:55]:
Well, it's very hard, and I'll stop after this statement, but it's very. A lot of people, I have found their motivator for a lot of their Christian walk is shame. Because the question is, oh my gosh, I don't want to miss it. And from any sport, any activity, a coach, a guidance counselor, whatever, if you are standing there shooting a free throw and your primary forefront thought is, oh my gosh, I don't want to miss.

Morgan May Treuil [00:50:24]:
Miss it.

Charles Metcalf [00:50:25]:
You are thousands times more likely to miss it because that's what you're focusing on. What gets the most of your attention is, I don't want to miss it.

Abby Metcalf [00:50:32]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:50:32]:
Rather than, oh my gosh, this is exciting opportunity. And I just think a lot of people, their motivating factor of why they pray to hear from God is because they're terrified they're going to miss it. It's not because they're exciting and they think God wants to talk to them.

Abby Metcalf [00:50:45]:
Yeah.

Charles Metcalf [00:50:45]:
The reason they read the Bible is because they think if I don't read it, I'm probably going to. And so you wake up, you read your Bible, you pray, you go to church, you come to the conference, all really because you're scared. That. And that's just not a good motivator. I would much rather read my Bible because I expect God speaks to me when I read this, and I'm so excited on what he's going to say this morning. Read your Bible for that reason, but don't read it because you think your pastor's going to shame you and be like, where's your hand? If you raise your Bible, if you didn't read it, you're going to hell. It's just not. And so anyways, I think we fight a lot for my friend.

Charles Metcalf [00:51:16]:
He said you can either have a mindset or mind soup. And it's just true. Like when people talk mindset it's. I've set my mind like think on these things. That's a decision, you gotta decide that. And so I think for us there's some things we've decided even about how we go about hearing God that it's like we're gonna try to fight really hard to not make decisions under pressure. To not make decisions because of money, to not make decisions, you know what I'm saying? Like all those things are in the car, but they don't drive the car car, you know what I'm saying? Like how I feel is in the car. Cuz it's important but it doesn't drive the car.

Charles Metcalf [00:51:50]:
Money is in the car cuz I got to pay the bills but it don't drive the car. You know what I'm saying? Like people's opinion is in the car but it is in the trunk. It don't get to drive. You know what I'm saying? Like and people I think make a lot of decisions letting reckless things drive the car. It's just like I'm going to let the fact that God loves me and he wants to see me flourish drive the car. And when I make a decision from there now it's like what is the most flourishing fun decision God would want me to make versus like okay, like I'm open my Bible. God's going to speak to me through Leviticus. It's like maybe he will, but also probably he will be the first.

Morgan May Treuil [00:52:26]:
Yeah, that is so. This is so good. Like in my I, I have taken mental notes. I feel freedom from the things that you guys have spoken. We want to honor your time and we're at the end of your time. But I, I do want to ask, just I want to open up one more space for you guys if you're okay with it. It. God chose me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:52:44]:
I just want to make sure that we, we talk that because people are going to want to hear from everything that you guys have to say again. So can you tell us the premise of that and then so how, how people can find it?

Charles Metcalf [00:52:55]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. God chose me. Untouchable confidence for the unstoppable Christian. And it is, the book is a call to Christians define a confidence thing. That brings us back to the origin of our movement, which is a movement that is marked by a, A message that a 33 year old man taught. And they thought that they would stop it if they killed him, and then they couldn't stop it. And so then they thought they'd stop it if they killed all his friends. And they still couldn't stop it.

Charles Metcalf [00:53:25]:
Then they thought if we feed Christians to lions in the coliseum, that'll stop it. And they couldn't stop it. Then they thought if we push the church underground, that'll stop it. And it couldn't stop it. And it's every marker of our faith that is a group of people who are regular but also had a very supernatural God on their side and they believed he was real and they acted like he was real and they made decisions that vice if he was real and they didn't deny what they saw. And so it's really just a book that is my greatest goal would for people to find the courage that only God gives and the confidence that he gives. So it's based off a sermon that I preached back in 2023 that was like a supernatural moment in our life. And in my life it was called God Chose Me.

Charles Metcalf [00:54:06]:
But yeah, I worked really, really hard on this book, spent hours, tears, fought for it. And so I believe it's changed my life. The short story of it is, is in 2020 I was going to take my own life and I was having panic attacks and anxiety and a really, really deep depression. And the whisper that kept me alive was, hey, like I chose you, I'm with you, you're going to live. And so, so I didn't articulate it like that at the moment, but it was based off of Scripture, Galatians 1:15, where Paul says, hey, before I was born, God chose me. And that's what's true for everybody is like, before you're born, God chose you and he has a purpose for you. And your life should be full of courage and excitement and joy and expectation to change the world. And Acts chapter five, there's a group of believers who they're trying to kill.

Charles Metcalf [00:55:01]:
And a quote, the guy says, he says, listen, if this movement and what they're talking about is from man, it'll fizzle out like anything else. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men and you will find yourself fighting against God himself. And so Christians are supposed to feel an untouchable confidence and an unstoppable faith. And so that's what the book's about. You can pre order it and, or when you're listening to this, it may be out Anywhere you can get books. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the places. And so I'm very grateful. Grateful for my wife's encouragement, support to do it.

Charles Metcalf [00:55:34]:
And yeah, I love the book.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:36]:
Thanks for sharing.

Leslie [00:55:37]:
So excited to be here. That's awesome.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:39]:
And congratulations.

Charles Metcalf [00:55:39]:
Thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:42]:
Wow.

Leslie [00:55:42]:
Yeah. Well, we'll have to get you on sometime after even the books, like, out.

Charles Metcalf [00:55:46]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:48]:
You can hold a permanent residence here. One of my favorite episodes that we have done.

Leslie [00:55:56]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:56]:
Seriously.

Leslie [00:55:57]:
I just respect so much, like, we. We met back, I think.

Charles Metcalf [00:56:00]:
Yes.

Leslie [00:56:00]:
2021 or something. And hearing your guys's story in depth, that was so cool. But it's just cool to learn a little bit more about you guys. Like, the humility you both have and the. The want and the drive to just be like, God, you know what? You're taking us forward. I didn't know a ton of those stories about, like, what you guys have not left behind, but, like, chose a way that was not the path that most people would have taken. And I think a lot of times people. People don't choose that path because it's too scary or it's too.

Leslie [00:56:29]:
You just don't know. But you guys did that and, like, look at the fruit that's come from it. So that really encouraged me. So I feel like I needed to hear that today.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:36]:
So thank you all so much for time.

Charles Metcalf [00:56:39]:
Be here.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:39]:
No, yeah, yeah.

Leslie [00:56:40]:
Wait, we need to end with. Because we didn't start with it.

Charles Metcalf [00:56:44]:
Start with it. I was waiting.

Leslie [00:56:45]:
I need to hear the unpopular opinion.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:48]:
That's how you know a podcast is good.

Charles Metcalf [00:56:51]:
We forgot the whole hook.

Leslie [00:56:52]:
We were right in.

Charles Metcalf [00:56:53]:
But first, ladies first. I'm popping your opinion.

Abby Metcalf [00:56:56]:
Unpopular.

Charles Metcalf [00:56:57]:
Don't steal mine. I don't know. I'm just saying.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:01]:
Okay. I would say I. This came to mind because we were talking about Paris before the podcast started.

Charles Metcalf [00:57:08]:
That's a wild one, man.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:09]:
But I would venture to say if you have gone to a city, specifically, like a European city or like New York, Louisiana. Something like that.

Charles Metcalf [00:57:17]:
Any big city. With the.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:18]:
Any big city.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:19]:
Yeah.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:20]:
And all you've done is. Is seen the tourist things. If you've done a bus tour while.

Charles Metcalf [00:57:26]:
You were there, no shade on people who love bus tours. Don't shame people.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:31]:
There's a little bit of shade, but I love you. No, no shade.

Charles Metcalf [00:57:35]:
This is my opinion. Shade.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:36]:
I don't think you've actually seen the city. I would venture to say, like, if you said, yes, I've been to New York. Oh, what have you done? I saw the statue Of Liberty and Times Square. Yeah, Times Square. I would be like, we have been to two different. New York.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:49]:
We didn't do New York.

Charles Metcalf [00:57:49]:
Yeah, yeah.

Leslie [00:57:50]:
You didn't get it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:51]:
That's such a good one.

Abby Metcalf [00:57:52]:
If you're a tourist person, when you go on vacation, I think there is a whole new world of opportunity for you and that get beyond the tourism.

Leslie [00:58:00]:
The food and the people.

Abby Metcalf [00:58:02]:
If all you've had from Paris is a churro outside of the. There's a churro sand, my Parisian friends. No, not Parisian churro.

Charles Metcalf [00:58:12]:
All your Parisian thoughts. That's amazing.

Abby Metcalf [00:58:16]:
There's a churro stand right outside of it.

Leslie [00:58:18]:
You know what? Sometimes, though, those red bus tours hit.

Charles Metcalf [00:58:21]:
She's like, yeah, listen. Someone who personally sponsors multiple bus tours.

Abby Metcalf [00:58:26]:
I feel like you're in a movie.

Charles Metcalf [00:58:27]:
The last one.

Morgan May Treuil [00:58:27]:
I love that one. I agree with you.

Charles Metcalf [00:58:29]:
That's a great, great one. I said before all my unpopular opinions are too offensive. No, we accept that. I think. I don't know. I had a couple. I'll just fire off all mine. Cause Chan said none of them were good.

Charles Metcalf [00:58:43]:
My first one, which Chan said was just a statement, but I am of the strong belief that Hercules was 100% a real person. And the Bible confirms it through Genesis 6. The Nephilim, which were the angels that came down, they slept with earthly women, and it was part spiritual being, part man that ruled the earth of the kingdom. And so there's all Greek mythology talks about these people who are half man, half God, super strong. And so Christians shun a lot of things that are in the Bible, clearly. So shout out to Hercules. Hercules might have been real.

Leslie [00:59:16]:
I'm actually convinced you kind of right there.

Charles Metcalf [00:59:18]:
I was like, that's pretty strong, Argent.

Leslie [00:59:20]:
A pretty good argument.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:20]:
You're doing pretty good.

Leslie [00:59:21]:
I do listen to a lot of debates. Your arguments are solid.

Charles Metcalf [00:59:24]:
There we go. A little less intense. I. I told Abby this one. She said it was super lame. So shade to her that the best Pop Tart is the plain strawberry Pop Tart toasted.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:37]:
That is an unpopular.

Leslie [00:59:39]:
No frosting.

Charles Metcalf [00:59:40]:
No frosting, no nothing. Sugar? No. Get out of here.

Morgan May Treuil [00:59:43]:
Just brown sugar. Pop Tarts are.

Charles Metcalf [00:59:45]:
No, they are great. I'm not mad at them.

Leslie [00:59:47]:
Classic. Pop Tart is a strawberry. I'm with you on that.

Charles Metcalf [00:59:49]:
Classic. No frosting, though. Just straight. Straight in the toaster. Pop it out. Bam. It's got to be like 12 in the morning.

Abby Metcalf [00:59:57]:
Said I didn't like that one. I've literally never had a Pop Tart.

Charles Metcalf [00:59:59]:
Yeah, well, that's. That's an unpopular opinion.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:01]:
We should have pop tarts on for this moment.

Charles Metcalf [01:00:06]:
You need some of that freaking fake red dye. 40 goo. Yes. No, sorry, those are my unpopular opinions. Last one is three unpopular opinions. Just because we're taking it to the next level. God chose me. Is.

Charles Metcalf [01:00:19]:
I don't remember what I was going to say. Oh. Unless you order a drink that is black coffee or just espresso and milk, Starbucks is not real coffee. It's mostly milkshakes.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:31]:
Yes.

Charles Metcalf [01:00:31]:
Milkshakes.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:32]:
Yeah, I think.

Charles Metcalf [01:00:37]:
And I'm not mad at you, but I have a friend who says, I love coffee, and she orders milkshakes from Starbucks. It's like, I got a mocha. It's like, do you like vanilla milkshake shakes? Starbucks.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:50]:
Yes.

Leslie [01:00:51]:
You know what? I'm with you because I grew up, like, I have, like a. I like, I'm a connoisseur of donuts. Like, I love a donut. I'll eat a donut every day if I could.

Charles Metcalf [01:00:59]:
Absolutely.

Leslie [01:01:00]:
And I would get shade from other girls. They're like, you eat donuts. They're so unhealthy for you, yet they're holding, like, a venti. Absolutely.

Abby Metcalf [01:01:08]:
They have a liquid compared to liquid.

Leslie [01:01:13]:
Don't. I agree.

Abby Metcalf [01:01:15]:
This is actually the healthier option.

Charles Metcalf [01:01:18]:
First of all.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:21]:
Thank you came ready. And we just sprung that on you right before, so I feel very thankful for that.

Leslie [01:01:25]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:26]:
You guys, thank you so much for coming on the show. We are huge fans of yours and we learned so much from you. We know that everybody else has, too. So thank you guys for listening to the Am I Doing this Right Podcast, and we will see you guys next week.

Charles Metcalf [01:01:37]:
Adios.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:38]:
Adios.