All the single boys, all the single boys

Leslie Johnston [00:00:00]:
Welcome back, everybody, to Am I doing this Right? And we have a new series that we're starting.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:05]:
New series for the summer. New series for the summer.

Leslie Johnston [00:00:08]:
And we're on YouTube officially.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:09]:
This is the first episode on YouTube.

Leslie Johnston [00:00:11]:
Well, I think they're gonna like back put some on. But yes, it's like the first. You guys are the first. Like we're doing YouTube.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:19]:
We're on YouTube. Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:00:20]:
I'm honored.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:20]:
Yes. Well, I feel like you guys should be honored. I kind of forgot that's why we're doing something special for this episode. So. So we do relationship series occasionally, kind of in and out of season. And the reason being is because the primary demographic of listeners likes to have conversations about relationships because they're looking for relationships or they're in new relationships because I don't know if you guys know this. The primary range for this podcast is like 18 to 40, which is a big range. But it's everybody that's in that, like, relationship era.

Morgan May Treuil [00:00:51]:
So with that being said, we thought it would be good this season to get on couple of guys and a couple of girls in a different episode and ask questions about dating that the opposite sex wishes they could ask guys like you guys about relationships and the Christian dating scene. So that's why we have you on.

Derek Brown [00:01:08]:
Sweet.

Leslie Johnston [00:01:09]:
Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:09]:
Let's introduce these guys really quick. I get the privilege of getting to lead these two young awesome men in our young adults ministry, which is how we found them. And they're amazing. So let's start here and tell us your first and last name and then give us like a one sentence synopsis about your life. You don't have to go too deep. As deep as you want to go.

Derek Brown [00:01:28]:
As deep as I want.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:29]:
Yes.

Derek Brown [00:01:29]:
So my name is Derek Brown. One sentence synopsis. I love God and I love friends and I love doing crazy things.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:41]:
Oh, crazy things. Name one crazy thing you like to do.

Derek Brown [00:01:44]:
I love doing adrenaline stuff. So cliff jumping Planes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:48]:
Flying planes.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:01:49]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:01:51]:
What had to slide?

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:52]:
That. I didn't know you were a pilot.

Derek Brown [00:01:55]:
You did not? You didn't know that?

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:57]:
No.

Derek Brown [00:01:57]:
Oh, it's only been a few years.

Morgan May Treuil [00:01:59]:
I will never fly in a plane with you, just so you know. But I like to know that you're a pilot. What do you fly?

Derek Brown [00:02:04]:
Small planes right now? Still training.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:06]:
So are you hoping to like fly like bigger planes?

Derek Brown [00:02:10]:
Yeah, I want to fly people things to people, to vacation boxes, whatever it is.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:14]:
Wait, like commercial airline? You would like what airline?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:02:18]:
Bring spirit.

Derek Brown [00:02:18]:
They're all very similar.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:19]:
Bring spirit back.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:20]:
Bring spirit back.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:23]:
Would you? What Airline would you want to apply for? What's the dream airline?

Derek Brown [00:02:26]:
I want to do international, so bigger airlines, I guess United or Delta.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:30]:
Delta, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:02:31]:
Is that your favorite?

Leslie Johnston [00:02:32]:
No, Delta's always.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:33]:
Unless it wants you to fly for Southwest.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:36]:
Southwest. Delta is always like, crashing. And, you know, that's not good.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:40]:
It's not true. They're not always crashing.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:42]:
They're always on fire.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:43]:
They're always on fire or upside down.

Leslie Johnston [00:02:45]:
Yeah, that's so true. So true.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:47]:
Southwest. Where are you from originally?

Derek Brown [00:02:50]:
Morgan Hill, south of San Jose. So just a couple hours.

Morgan May Treuil [00:02:53]:
So Barry Bay area is. Love it. I'm glad you're here. Gavin.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:02:58]:
My name is Gavin Davis Smith. I grew up in the Sacramento area. Local. So a little bit about me is I played football at Sacramento State and I get the opportunity to attend young adults with the amazing next gen pastor Morgan Matro. Oh, my gosh.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:15]:
That's your one sentence?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:17]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:03:17]:
Wait, what did you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:19]:
What did you play? What position did you play at Sac State?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:21]:
Safety and nickel.

Leslie Johnston [00:03:22]:
Okay, A nickel.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:24]:
A nickel.

Leslie Johnston [00:03:24]:
What is that?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:25]:
It's like a hybrid defensive back.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:27]:
What does that position do?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:29]:
It's between, like a linebacker and a safety.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:31]:
So defense or offense?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:33]:
Defense.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:33]:
Defense. So you guard.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:37]:
I'm in the slot. I'm in the slot.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:39]:
You're in the slot?

Derek Brown [00:03:40]:
Yeah, both lines and he's behind the line. Little extra guy back there.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:44]:
We're gonna. We're gonna move right along. We don't know. I love that, though. Do you still enj. Enjoy playing football?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:51]:
In my free time? Yeah, I love to train still.

Morgan May Treuil [00:03:53]:
What do you do for work?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:03:55]:
I. I'm an academic advisor for student athletes at Sacramento State.

Leslie Johnston [00:03:59]:
That's awesome.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:00]:
Which is really cool.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:04:01]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:01]:
You like what you do?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:04:02]:
Yeah, I love it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:02]:
Okay, that's awesome. Relationship status. We'll get that kind of like, out of the way, just so everybody knows where you sit before this episode. And then we'll get into one of the unpopular opinions, but tell us, like, briefly, relationship status is.

Derek Brown [00:04:18]:
I'm dating a girl.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:20]:
A girl?

Leslie Johnston [00:04:20]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:21]:
Great.

Leslie Johnston [00:04:21]:
Thank you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:21]:
I have a girlfriend. I'm dating a girl. Great. But you've been single before. You know what the single life is like. You know what it's like to be in and out of the dating scene.

Derek Brown [00:04:30]:
War zone.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:31]:
Yeah, the war zone.

Leslie Johnston [00:04:32]:
We are so gonna get into the war.

Derek Brown [00:04:34]:
Yes, absolutely.

Leslie Johnston [00:04:35]:
We're excited.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:35]:
That's great. Love that. Gavin.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:04:37]:
Currently single.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:38]:
Currently single. Ready to mingle?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:04:40]:
He said yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:41]:
Have plans to mingle possibly. Okay, so great. This is good. Good perspectives. Okay, so then with that, we need one unpopular opinion, because that's the rule of our guests that.

Leslie Johnston [00:04:52]:
Come on, Gavin. We know you might have one.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:04:54]:
Yeah, I got one. I'd say seafood is overrated.

Morgan May Treuil [00:04:58]:
Seafood is overrated?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:00]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:05:00]:
Do you like it or just over?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:01]:
It's all right. I just started getting into my sushi phase, but, like, other than that, I ain't really touched that other stuff. It's too raw. It's like.

Leslie Johnston [00:05:11]:
It's too raw.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:12]:
Wait, so.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:13]:
So what does that mean? That means you're eating. What are you eating? Like, what rolls are you.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:18]:
Like, I've tried about everything so far.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:20]:
Okay.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:21]:
But I'm growing. I'm growing on sushi right now.

Derek Brown [00:05:22]:
So you don't like the raw fish laying on top of that?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:24]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:05:25]:
No.

Leslie Johnston [00:05:25]:
You're just saying it's over. Why is it overrated?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:28]:
Just because I think it's a lot. A lot of people like to just go get sushi in their free time or crab or lobster. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm going to get a burger or a pizza. You know what I'm saying?

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:39]:
Like, you think it's, like, dumb that people would go to, like, a seafood restaurant?

Leslie Johnston [00:05:43]:
Do you think people are doing it just because they think they're cool?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:45]:
Yeah. For the aesthetic of Instagram, which is, I think, is a problem.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:48]:
You think people are eating something so

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:50]:
they could post that.

Derek Brown [00:05:51]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:51]:
Crab legs in a bag. Like, I'm never tried it, never will.

Leslie Johnston [00:05:54]:
But you think.

Morgan May Treuil [00:05:55]:
You think people are only getting it to post it online?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:05:58]:
Absolutely.

Leslie Johnston [00:05:59]:
That is so.

Derek Brown [00:06:00]:
I think he's on to something, though.

Leslie Johnston [00:06:01]:
That is kind of how I feel about Matcha. I feel, like, easy.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:06]:
I like.

Leslie Johnston [00:06:06]:
You do not like matcha.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:07]:
Brown sugar. Brown sugar from Starbucks. It's grass.

Leslie Johnston [00:06:11]:
It's grass.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:11]:
Go to the coffee shop in Sacramento.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:14]:
Matcha.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:15]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:16]:
Oh, I feel the same way. I think people are only drinking Matcha

Leslie Johnston [00:06:19]:
because it's green and they want to look healthy.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:21]:
And they want to look healthy. They want to be like, got my Matcha. Now I'm ready to start my day. It's like you with the crab legs. Yes. Who's eating a bag of crab legs on Instagram?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:30]:
I see it all the time. Our demographic is a little bit different, I guess.

Derek Brown [00:06:34]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:36]:
That's awesome. Okay, so your opinion is seafood is overrated. We should never be going to restaurants just to get seafood. No. Okay. Would you say that that's true of sushi? Like, do you see why people go,

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:47]:
no, I wouldn't Sushi. I do see that, because I'm growing On it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:50]:
Because it's growing on you. Yeah, but slow grow.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:52]:
It could possibly change.

Morgan May Treuil [00:06:53]:
But if you were to take a girl on a date right now, what genre of food are you taking her to?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:06:58]:
Probably some cool American sit down low, enjoy. You know what I'm saying?

Derek Brown [00:07:02]:
He wants burgers.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:03]:
Burgers?

Derek Brown [00:07:03]:
Yeah, he wants burgers.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:04]:
You want a burger?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:07:05]:
No, it depends.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:05]:
Like a steakhouse.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:07:07]:
Like a steakhouse. We could do a steakhouse. Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:09]:
Okay. Okay. Dere.

Derek Brown [00:07:12]:
I'd have to agree. That or Mexican food. I feel like there's just so much variety with it. I say that because I like to eat. I'm gonna get a burrito.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:21]:
Yes.

Derek Brown [00:07:21]:
And she can get her little tacos or, you know.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:24]:
Why are you assuming she's not getting a burrito?

Derek Brown [00:07:26]:
Well, she.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:26]:
Well, I guess you're assuming, you know. Cause it's your. You have a girlfriend.

Derek Brown [00:07:29]:
Yeah. A little bit smaller.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:30]:
Okay. She can't handle a burrito.

Derek Brown [00:07:33]:
The food she eats is a little bit smaller. But there's a lot of variety in size, flavor, and I think it's. It's one of my favorite genres of food.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:41]:
I like that. Okay, that's good. Mexican and like a burger. American, something fries and steak. I like that.

Derek Brown [00:07:49]:
Not bad.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:49]:
Okay, that's good.

Derek Brown [00:07:51]:
No seafood.

Morgan May Treuil [00:07:52]:
Let's get into it a little bit. First question, I sent you guys kind of a big list of questions, and we'll just go back and forth and we can kind of like popcorn amongst all of that.

Leslie Johnston [00:08:01]:
Yes. And again, these are questions that, like, maybe our listeners, especially our girl listeners, are like, oh, I wish I could ask guys these questions, but, like, would be awkward. Or I don't feel like I can. So we're going to do it for them.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:13]:
Yes, exactly. Okay, so think about in the past. So not just current relationships, not just current interests, but people that you have been interested in dating in the past. And you're thinking about this in the Christian dating sphere. So if you dated people before you were a Jesus follower, that's great, too. But we're thinking, like, in this frame of mind, what makes you interested in a woman beyond just physical appearance? So take, like, physical type out of it. What are the things that make you interested in a woman? Whoever wants to go first can go first.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:08:46]:
I'll go.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:47]:
Okay.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:08:48]:
I'd say again, back to the social media world. I feel like it's a big tool and a big tell.

Morgan May Treuil [00:08:54]:
To do your research.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:08:55]:
Yeah, to do your research. But also what you're seeing on social media, like, is what you see, what you get in person. In real life, like, for example, what they have in their bio might not match the way they live out their life. You know what I'm saying?

Leslie Johnston [00:09:09]:
So, like, sometimes it's in the bio, doesn't match the pictures underneath that as well.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:09:14]:
And that's like. That's, like, where, you know, I'm saying. Yeah, you don't even bother at that point. But then it's like, you see the bio. It's like, worth maybe getting to know them. And then you realize their actual lifestyle doesn't match in their bio. So, like, is what you see, what you get.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:28]:
Okay, this is actually. Pause, pause. This is a really good train of thought for a second. So to Leslie's point, let's say the bio says, like, Psalm 23, whatever. Right. So something solved. The Lord is my shepherd, something verse. Right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:43]:
Like, love God, love people, love whatever. You scroll down and there's, like, twerk videos in the club. Like, it is just, like, all for him. All for him. And yet it's like the whole feed does not match.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:09:56]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:09:56]:
In your mind, are you, like, immediately, I'm out on that.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:09:59]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:00]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:00]:
Explain that.

Derek Brown [00:10:01]:
I think kind of what Gavin was saying is that if it doesn't line up, people are putting social media out as almost a front to what they want the world to see.

Leslie Johnston [00:10:10]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:11]:
Myself included.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:10:12]:
I know.

Derek Brown [00:10:12]:
We all are. Like, oh, here's this vacation I went on. Or here's this, like, whatever in your life.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:17]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:17]:
It's usually the highlights. And that's one reason I don't love social media is because it's really pushing what you want people to see versus

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:24]:
who you actually are.

Derek Brown [00:10:25]:
And if they're putting, like, you said, any, like, club videos or twerking videos or whatever.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:29]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:29]:
On there. That's what they want the world to see.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:31]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:32]:
They're pushing that. They don't have to post that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:33]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:34]:
Even if they're living that life, they don't have to post it, but they want people to see that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:37]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:10:37]:
And I think for me personally, that's a complete dislike.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:10:41]:
No.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:41]:
So you're paying attention to what you see on the feed.

Derek Brown [00:10:43]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:45]:
This is a question. Sorry, I'm, like, tangenting on this is because I feel like this is a really strange line that we, you know, I don't know. Did you guys grow up in church?

Derek Brown [00:10:54]:
Yes.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:10:54]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:10:55]:
So then you heard, like, the whole, like, modest is hottest thing you've been. Have you heard that phrase before?

Derek Brown [00:11:00]:
Not quite, but I.

Morgan May Treuil [00:11:01]:
Something along those lines. Right. People, like, teach you how to dress and tell you how to appear online. And I feel like right now there's lots. We're in like the influencery selfie. Like, I take pictures in my cute outfits. I post lots of videos of me. Like, it is like your social media is kind of like a beacon into you, but it is a lot of you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:11:22]:
When you go to someone's page and you're scrolling and you're looking, is it a turn off if the entire page is just them? Are you looking to see what kind of friends they have, what kind of activities that they do? Like, you know what I'm saying? I think sometimes we approach social media when we're single and we're looking to like appear single to guys. We like to think, oh, let's just post stuff that lets people know that, like, I'm attractive, I'm fun, I'm cute, I'm this. Right. But does that kind of stuff actually hurt us or does it help us? Like, what are you looking for when you hit the page and you're like, what are the things you're looking to see if that person is someone you'd actually be interested in dating?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:12:00]:
Yeah. So that's interesting topic that you bring up because, I mean, the first thing I want to see when I click is like, what's their community like? Are they a family person? Like, is it just about them? You know what I'm saying? Is there something else to their life except just going out and taking pictures? Yeah, just a post. Like, that's essentially what it looks like when it's just pictures of them, right?

Morgan May Treuil [00:12:19]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:12:20]:
And then an interesting thing that I would even bring up that I'm open about talking about is my ex. My mom brought it up to me later down the line and she's like, you know, I seen your ex's Instagram page and it seemed very egocentric. Like there was however many pictures, 30 pictures, and they're all of her, not a single one of her mom or her friend. And then I was like, I look back and I reflect on younger me and I was like, that's just so telling in terms of like, just who. Who a person is and getting to know a person and who you want to go for. Yeah, who I was going for compared to now, who I'm going for.

Leslie Johnston [00:12:50]:
Yeah, that's really cool.

Derek Brown [00:12:51]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:12:51]:
Yeah. It's interesting because I feel like when I was single, I feel like I constantly was thinking like, oh, well, if I post this cute photo of me, then like, this guy might see it or this guy might like, like it or Whatever. And it's funny to hear, though, from a guy's perspective that you're like, I kind of want to know that you're not, like, just about yourself. So it's something that. Not that you can't post photos of yourself. Like, that's great. But it's like, to remind yourself, like, okay, if you're only thinking, like, well, I look really good in this photo. I don't want to post this group photo because it doesn't go with my aesthetic or whatever, and it's like, okay, I actually might deter someone because it's not representing you.

Leslie Johnston [00:13:29]:
Well, to only post yourself, you know,

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:32]:
it's a great point.

Derek Brown [00:13:33]:
Yeah. And I would agree on that for sure. I think one thing that maybe, like, even I look for, I know a couple of my friends look for, is like, what do you. What do you do? What are your hobbies? Like, Gavin said, community, family, young adults. Like, your church life. Like, what does that look like? Put that on there, right?

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:46]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:13:47]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:13:47]:
Maybe it's, like, in the stories or even posting about it or like. Like, we want to see that too.

Leslie Johnston [00:13:52]:
Yes.

Derek Brown [00:13:52]:
And I think the right guy will be looking for your community rather than just the way you look.

Morgan May Treuil [00:13:57]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:13:57]:
And I think that's something that's really important for girls to understand is, like, who are you as a person? Would we match? Do we have similar hobbies or similar interests? And I think that, in an example is, like, it's more important than just your looks, I guess. We do want to see what you look like.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:11]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:14:11]:
That's our.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:12]:
You would like to be a child.

Leslie Johnston [00:14:13]:
You're like, I don't want to go to your tagged photos and zoom in. Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:14:16]:
You don't want to dig too deep, right?

Leslie Johnston [00:14:17]:
Yeah. Yes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:20]:
I don't want to go looking through the archives.

Leslie Johnston [00:14:22]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:22]:
Yes.

Derek Brown [00:14:22]:
Yeah. Although important, it's not the most important thing.

Leslie Johnston [00:14:25]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:25]:
So you're at Young Adults on a Thursday night, and let's say you're both single. So before you were dating. Yeah, single. What's. Because we have lots of girls that are cute and love Jesus. Right. And I would argue that everybody's beautiful and a lot of people, like, love the Lord there. So what would be the thing that caused like.

Morgan May Treuil [00:14:47]:
Causes you to take the step over the line of, like, I'm going from just observing her from afar to, like, No, I actually think she's worth pursuing. I'm gonna go for it. Like, what does she have to be like?

Derek Brown [00:14:58]:
Yeah, I'd say one thing for me that I love in, like, a Woman of Christ is service. And I think, yes, young adults can be great. Church can be great. But I grew up in the church behind the scenes of the church, both my parents being pastors. For me personally, I want to see that they almost taking that next step, like, get in and serve. Get in. It could be something as small as, like, hey, welcome to young adults. Right? You're taking that deeper step or more consistency being there.

Derek Brown [00:15:27]:
Because I think when you're not serving almost in guys and girls, it's like, oh, there's no quote, unquote commitment. I come when I want to, I kind of stop by. But I think when people are serving and people are there consistently, like, oh, there's that girl I saw last week and the week before and the week before and the week before. And rather than just like in and out every other time, I think really getting involved, getting behind the scenes, we have our leadership meeting that we do every week before. For me personally, if I was single, that would be the people I would be looking at.

Morgan May Treuil [00:15:54]:
That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. What about you, Gavin?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:15:58]:
I would definitely piggyback off that. That was at the top of my mind. Is like, is she serving within the church or is she serving in general? Like, who is she as a person outside of just young adults? You know what I'm saying? I think that's big. And then just maybe interactions, like, at young adults, like, what is she like at service? Like, is she. And is she engaged in the message? Like, pick up on those little things? Like, is she just listening? She taking notes? Is like, stuff like that, that's stuff that kind of attracts me further along, you know what I'm saying? Because there's always something you can learn more. Like, every time y' all give a message, I have my notepad out. Like, I'm always looking to learn and grow.

Morgan May Treuil [00:16:33]:
So you want someone else who's looking to do that.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:16:35]:
Right.

Derek Brown [00:16:35]:
It just shows the depth in their other walk. I feel like that's cool.

Morgan May Treuil [00:16:38]:
Yeah, that's good.

Leslie Johnston [00:16:39]:
That's great.

Morgan May Treuil [00:16:39]:
Like, it's real. Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:16:41]:
Okay. What's like, if in person, not just on social media, but, like, what's the thing that goes, oh, that's an instant turn off. Like, I'm not. I'm not attracted to that. Or like, something maybe that you and you guys can be honest, things that you think maybe girls do that they think is helping them find a guy, but really you're like, oh, this is actually not attractive to us.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:04]:
Yeah. But, like, think a little bit, because I like, the obvious answer is, like, oh, if she's, like, wilding out and going, you know, like, take, like, the whole sin piece out of it, like, that stuff. We know it's the stuff that girls think is working for them, but it's actually not.

Leslie Johnston [00:17:21]:
Gavin has one.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:26]:
Let me educate.

Leslie Johnston [00:17:27]:
And all my girls listening. You can't be offended. Yeah, no, we're asking the honest, helpful things. You don't have to agree with it.

Derek Brown [00:17:33]:
But, yes, I've heard this isn't necessarily something that girls do. That's, like, terrible, I suppose.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:40]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:17:42]:
For me. Well. And I'll get into it, but it's almost like when they're like, oh, I like that person, but I don't want them to know, like, at all. Right. And I. And I know it's, like, a little bit different than the question you're asking.

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:52]:
No, it's okay.

Derek Brown [00:17:54]:
But, like, I think guys like confidence in women. Right?

Morgan May Treuil [00:17:58]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:17:58]:
I'm not saying make the first step. You can if you want. Some girls do that. But hiding and trying to be like, oh, I like them, but I don't

Gavin Davis Smith [00:18:06]:
want them to know.

Derek Brown [00:18:06]:
It's, like, all mysterious, like.

Leslie Johnston [00:18:08]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:18:08]:
If we don't know, we don't know.

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:09]:
So you're saying, like, hard to get is not actually hard to get.

Derek Brown [00:18:12]:
Yeah. That's a good way of playing. I don't love hard.

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:14]:
Same for you.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:18:15]:
Same.

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:16]:
Okay, that's interesting, because I think a lot of girls. Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:18:18]:
Like, I want to. I want to play games and, like, kind of be like, oh, like, stop.

Leslie Johnston [00:18:21]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:18:22]:
Oh, no, I don't. I don't like you.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:18:24]:
Stop.

Derek Brown [00:18:24]:
But in reality, it's like, oh, like, a lot of guys are a little. Like, sometimes we don't pick that up. We're like, oh, they said stop. I don't like what I'm gonna go find. A lot of times it's like, a lot of games are being played where

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:38]:
it's like, oh, yeah, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:18:39]:
And guys, we can be a little dumpster sometimes. We're like, all right, we don't know what's going on. We're just. I'm out.

Morgan May Treuil [00:18:44]:
So are you saying that, like, the thing that's in girls's minds. I'm not making an overgeneralization, so forgive me if. If you're listening to this and you're like, that's not how we all are. But I'm definitely this way. It's, like, the thing in girls that causes them to, like, overthink and, like, play games and, like, play hard to get. Go back and forth. Guys brains don't think that way. Is that kind of what you're saying? Like, for the most part, mine doesn't know.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:08]:
Yours doesn't.

Derek Brown [00:19:08]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:09]:
Does yours think that way?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:19:10]:
No.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:11]:
So it's like you're either in or you're out.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:19:12]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:14]:
They're like, it's pretty straight. Good to know. I think we think it's a little more complicated than that.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:19:19]:
Yeah, I do think it's the, like, the man should be in the position to pursue. Like, it's never the woman's job to pursue. It's the man's job to pursue. And that's why I think it gets lost in, like, transaction is like, it's his job to pursue me. So I'm going to play these games and he's going to keep pursuing. No, I'm going to pursue you and I'm going to go out of my way to make it known that I like you. But if it's like, I'm pursuing you and then it's the idea of, like, your. Your communication is inconsistent, stuff like that, like, then I'll just fall back like,

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:44]:
yeah, yeah, you're like.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:19:45]:
You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that's. That's a little too much.

Morgan May Treuil [00:19:47]:
So you're gonna pursue, but you're not picking up that there's, like, reciprocation.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:19:54]:
You're like, yeah, right.

Leslie Johnston [00:19:55]:
I like that. Okay, so when are guys actually bad texters or do they not just. They just don't like the girl enough?

Derek Brown [00:20:03]:
I like this question. That's.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:20:04]:
I'm a. I'm totally against the bad text argument. Like, if you like a girl, you're going to communicate. You're going to text you. Yeah, yeah. Maybe everybody has a preference, but, like, if you like the girl, you're going to be. Yeah, you're consistent communication. Like, it's not like, I don't talk to her for a day.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:20:17]:
Even to me, like, the communication one day might be a few text messages because you could go. You guys both had busy schedules. But, like, you're not going. But, like, you're not going the whole

Morgan May Treuil [00:20:27]:
day directing Spirit Airlines.

Derek Brown [00:20:29]:
Here comes.

Morgan May Treuil [00:20:30]:
Yes. So there are no bad texters. You're saying, like, they're. They don't like you.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:20:34]:
Right? That's what I think.

Morgan May Treuil [00:20:36]:
Ah, gosh.

Leslie Johnston [00:20:37]:
Okay.

Morgan May Treuil [00:20:37]:
What do you think?

Derek Brown [00:20:38]:
I would almost. I would almost disagree a little bit.

Morgan May Treuil [00:20:40]:
Oh, just a little bit.

Derek Brown [00:20:42]:
We're gonna fight right now. I do agree to an extent where if you like somebody, you are going to go out of the Way to. To communicate with them. Me, personally, I don't really love my phone. I try and be off of it as much as I can, and I think something that's intentional is to just be like, let them know early on. Be like, I don't like texting. And it's not like a lot of guys. A lot of girls are on their phone, it's in their pocket all day long.

Derek Brown [00:21:06]:
For me, that's not always the case. I don't text when I drive, and I've let my girlfriend know that and be like, hey, like, if I'm driving, I don't want to die. Right. It's not that I don't like you. It's that, like, I don't want to be on my phone all the time. And I think the constant communication is actually what leads to a lot of insecurities and a lot of problems in today's dating.

Leslie Johnston [00:21:24]:
Yeah, but.

Derek Brown [00:21:24]:
And I think, yes, if you have the access to the communication, I think it's good to keep that communication up.

Morgan May Treuil [00:21:30]:
But I think what you're. Sorry, go ahead.

Leslie Johnston [00:21:32]:
Do you have read receipts on with your girlfriend?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:21:34]:
Absolutely not.

Derek Brown [00:21:35]:
Well, no.

Morgan May Treuil [00:21:36]:
Why absolutely not? Well, because. Why such a strong stance?

Derek Brown [00:21:39]:
Yeah, that was strong.

Morgan May Treuil [00:21:40]:
I didn't.

Derek Brown [00:21:41]:
I. I started answering before you finished. I don't have it on for anybody. Not just her. Yeah, but she knows, like, if she texts me and I see it, I'm responding thing. Right. I'm gonna be intentional with her. I'm not gonna be like, oh, she texted me.

Derek Brown [00:21:52]:
I'm gonna leave it. Like, if she reaches out, I will respond as soon as I see it or as soon as I have an answer for it where I'm not gonna let it sit there forever.

Leslie Johnston [00:21:59]:
So you're not really a bad texture. You're not just gonna have, like, conversations all day through text.

Derek Brown [00:22:03]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:22:03]:
But yeah, you've clarified that. I think a lot of girls sometimes are like, okay, he texted me. He texted me. I waited a few days to text back. Then he waits a few days. It's almost like this game of, like,

Gavin Davis Smith [00:22:14]:
who could play hard?

Leslie Johnston [00:22:15]:
Who can play harder to get? And I'm like, it's gonna be like, five years before you can text back because you guys keep doing this.

Derek Brown [00:22:20]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:22:20]:
That's not thing.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:23]:
You're saying the same thing in the sense of, like, there's clarity in that.

Derek Brown [00:22:26]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:26]:
So you're not playing hard to get by being a bad texter. Yeah. Like, you're. You're being clear about your expectations and what you do with your phone and Stuff like that.

Leslie Johnston [00:22:33]:
That's good.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:34]:
But I think that's good because there are. That the bad text or argument is a real thing for sure. Driving people up the wall.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:22:41]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:22:41]:
But I don't even think. I don't want to get into it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:43]:
No, go ahead.

Derek Brown [00:22:43]:
I don't think we were meant to text all the time.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:46]:
So how old are you emotionally, Derek?

Leslie Johnston [00:22:48]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:48]:
20. How old are you in real life?

Derek Brown [00:22:50]:
23.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:50]:
And how old are you emotionally?

Derek Brown [00:22:52]:
45. It's just the constant communication. It's like with the red receipts with everything. It leads to a lot of overthinking, in my opinion.

Morgan May Treuil [00:22:59]:
Do you feel like that is one of the big dating problems of our not. Well, I guess we're not all in the same generation. What generation are you guys in?

Derek Brown [00:23:07]:
I don't know. Too many labels. Okay.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:09]:
2,000. Yeah, I know it's going to keep 2,000.

Derek Brown [00:23:12]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:13]:
Y' all are Gen Z.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:13]:
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:15]:
That's probably one of the bigger dating problems within your generation is the excess amount of ways you can communicate with each other.

Derek Brown [00:23:21]:
Absolutely.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:21]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:23:22]:
And do you think it's healthy to have, if you're dating, not engaged, not married, dating, having each other's locations?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:28]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:23:29]:
You think it's cool with it?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:31]:
Honesty, intentionality, openness?

Derek Brown [00:23:33]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:33]:
Like I'm gonna be where I'm gonna be. I shouldn't be in no place I'm not supposed to be if I'm a man of God.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:38]:
Right.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:38]:
You know, I'm saying.

Derek Brown [00:23:39]:
Yeah, so.

Leslie Johnston [00:23:39]:
So you're saying, yes, we should have locations.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:42]:
You share locations.

Derek Brown [00:23:43]:
I do share.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:44]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:44]:
It's also very convenient.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:23:46]:
Yeah, yeah, it is.

Morgan May Treuil [00:23:46]:
To know. But then also I'm like, do I want people to be showing up to where. If they can show up to where? I don't know. But you're like, locations is okay.

Leslie Johnston [00:23:55]:
Yeah, locations, but not read receipts.

Derek Brown [00:23:57]:
Yeah, yeah, yes. I think for those that have access to you on that standpoint, which isn't everybody.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:04]:
Okay.

Derek Brown [00:24:04]:
I see people's fine. My. And it's like, whoa, we're still scrolling.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:07]:
And like I said.

Derek Brown [00:24:08]:
But yeah, with relationship wise, I see no problem. Absolutely not.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:24:12]:
Okay.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:13]:
Okay. I'm torn between two different questions. I guess we can ask both of them, but it's fine. Why do you think that guys will pursue hard and then suddenly disappear? And what should girls be gathering for from that? We live in an age where closure is not really a thing. Right. Like, people like closure. Actually, we're going to do an episode on closure because. Well, I was going to say I feel like, you probably have had great closure conversations, like if, like when you end.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:44]:
And Gavin, you're probably the same way too.

Derek Brown [00:24:46]:
Yeah, yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:47]:
Well, actually, let's ask that question.

Derek Brown [00:24:48]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:24:48]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:24:49]:
When you are choosing to end a relationship with a girl, whether it's like a serious relationship or it's like a you've been on one date kind of a thing, are you fully communicating why you're no longer pursuing it or are you kind of like letting it fade and you're kind of like disappearing into the background and you can be honest? Yeah, I don't think there's a wrong answer. I'm just asking.

Derek Brown [00:25:09]:
I think it depends on how long you've been going out.

Morgan May Treuil [00:25:12]:
Let's say it was one or two dates.

Derek Brown [00:25:13]:
One or two dates. I still, I still think conversation can't hurt, whether it's a five minute conversation. I think, especially as men, I think the women that we're taking out going on dates deserve that. I don't think they should be second guessing. It just leaves a bad taste in their mouth for whoever the next guy might be who asked them out.

Morgan May Treuil [00:25:29]:
What do you think?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:25:30]:
Yeah, I think closure wise, like one or two dates, like, I feel like for me, like if I were to not get closure, maybe from a girl, if it was vice versa, I would feel, I mean, my feelings wouldn't be too deep into it because, like, I'm not too attached after one or two dates, but like vice versa to give her closure after one or two dates. I do think it's important just from a man to a woman, just because it's honesty about like how you feel. But it also leaves her with like a sense of like, confidence in herself still, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not her like, or anything she necessarily did wrong. Maybe it's just like not a fit for me.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:03]:
So what advice would you give to a girl who's been on a couple dates with a guy? She was into it. All of a sudden he's kind of like not fully ghosted, but you can

Derek Brown [00:26:12]:
tell that he's starting to fading here, fading out.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:14]:
What's the advice you'd give to her?

Derek Brown [00:26:16]:
You deserve better. Right. And it's, it's hard, especially if you like the guy. But if they're. My dad always says, like, you're putting your best foot forward in the first few dates. And if that's quote unquote, the best foot forward, that's not somebody you want to be with.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:28]:
And you're saying, like, don't investigate.

Derek Brown [00:26:30]:
Yeah, don't investigate losses and go. And I know it's easier said than done, but it's almost like, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on to the next person if you can.

Morgan May Treuil [00:26:38]:
Shakira, pick yourself up and dust off.

Derek Brown [00:26:41]:
Did I just quote Shakira? You did. I might have.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:26:43]:
I don't know.

Leslie Johnston [00:26:44]:
It's like Shakira was quoting something Shakira always says.

Derek Brown [00:26:47]:
Shout out. Shout out. Shit. Shakira.

Leslie Johnston [00:26:48]:
So what do you guys think? Like, in what ways are girls settling these days in relationships with guys? Like, what, are they just okay with that? You've seen where you're like, man, you deserve so much better.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:00]:
It's a good question. Do you have one guy?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:27:03]:
I would say maybe just comfortability once you're actually in the relationship piece. Like for those who have been in a relationship so long and stuff starts going wrong down the road, but it's all they know. So they know no better to be with than to be with that person. Yeah, that'd be the first thing that pops in my mind for that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:22]:
Yeah. That's great. You feel like people like, once you get a little bit too far in, they like, lose their, like, it's almost like after you've been dating for a while, you kind of like trick yourself into thinking that you can still decide whether it's good or bad.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:27:35]:
Right? Yeah. Right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:36]:
But like. Yeah, just because you're in a long term relationship doesn't mean that you've like lost the ability to decide whether it's good or not for you.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:27:41]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:42]:
Yeah, that's a good point.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:27:43]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:43]:
What would you say, Derek?

Derek Brown [00:27:45]:
I forgot the question.

Leslie Johnston [00:27:47]:
What are girls settling with like. Yeah. How are they being treated? Or.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:27:51]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:27:51]:
In ways you've seen where you're like, man.

Morgan May Treuil [00:27:53]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:27:53]:
And I think kind of like Gavin said, I remember now, it's like the comfortability. Almost a lot of girls, a lot of guys too, just like having somebody rather than not having someone, even if it's the wrong person. Especially if, like, you're getting older and you're like, I, I, it's better to be with somebody than to be single. And I don't fully agree with that, but it's very much easier said than done.

Leslie Johnston [00:28:12]:
Yeah, for sure.

Morgan May Treuil [00:28:13]:
Good.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:28:14]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:28:17]:
What do men mean when they say they're not ready for a relationship?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:28:23]:
I think what they mean, if I had to say, maybe just career wise, maybe where they're at, maybe they feel like they have to have it all together. And when I think about this question, I think it's an important one to Ask, because it's important one to talk about. Because if they're not ready, but you feel like you've met your person, and I think that's a thing like you've met your person. Like, I believe that one person is out there for everybody. So, like, are you gonna compromise that one person that, you know, you might not find later down the road just because, like, you're not setting your career or whatever it is you want to build up, you know, your savings and get ready to go into a dating marriage pathway? For me, it would be like, not. It would be not to pass up on the opportunity of feeling like, you know, the person I met is my person. I'm gonna take the opportunity regardless of my situation and where I'm at because I feel like it doesn't come around too often, you know, that you find your person.

Morgan May Treuil [00:29:17]:
So do you feel like that is a thing that guys. I guess, like the nature of like, needing to be a provider and needing to be like financially stable, you'd like, that's a real reason that trips guys up in terms of like getting into relationships is the whole, like, I'm not ready because my life isn't in order yet.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:29:33]:
Yes. Ego, it's. It takes humility. But I think it's a lot of guys ego just in terms of, like, I have to have it all together. Like, I gotta make. Be making X amount of money. Like they have this dollar sign in mind that they have to have, or this house in mind that they have to have, or this car in mind that they even have to have.

Morgan May Treuil [00:29:47]:
So then for the girl who's listening to that and maybe she's talking to a guy or was talking to a guy, but then he's kind of pulled back and he's like, I really like you, but I'm not ready for a relationship. You feel like that's a, That's a legit. A legit reason to pull.

Leslie Johnston [00:30:00]:
I think you're saying that's a legit reason, but you don't think it's a

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:03]:
good, A good one, Like a good reason?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:30:04]:
I, I don't even think it's a legit reason because it wouldn't be the case for me at least that's why I don't think.

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:08]:
Yeah, but you feel like that's something that other guys.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:30:10]:
Yeah, I do. Because like, just conversations I've had with friends or just, you know, other close people, to me, they feel like they have to have it all together.

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:17]:
So for the guy, are you saying like, hey, there's Actually, no. Great time, Right. To be in a relationship.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:30:23]:
Yeah. That's your person.

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:24]:
That's your person, right?

Leslie Johnston [00:30:25]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:26]:
So you're a Soulmates guy.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:30:28]:
No, no, I just. I just think, like.

Morgan May Treuil [00:30:31]:
Like, you believe there's one person for everybody.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:30:33]:
Yeah, I mean, yeah, but just. Just in terms of, like, closure with the date, like, in terms of, like, going back to that, like. Yeah, I didn't get closure or some stuff like that. I'd encourage everybody to remain confident. Why? Because it's not like, every person you go on a date with, like, you can't be thinking, this is my personal. You know, I'm saying, like, everybody can't be your person. Like, you talk to the next person. You're like, no, this one's my person.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:30:54]:
I have friends like that. No, this one's mine. Like, and it's the very next, like, yeah. Person they meet. No, this person's mine. Like, no, it's like, we'll see. It's more of, like, we'll see and, like, not. No, it's not, but we'll see.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:31:03]:
You know, so that's. That's my thought process.

Morgan May Treuil [00:31:06]:
But that's great.

Derek Brown [00:31:08]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:31:08]:
Do you have anything you add to that, Derek, or.

Derek Brown [00:31:09]:
No, No, I think on the head. Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:31:12]:
Yeah. You don't have to. That's good. Did you have one, Lesley?

Leslie Johnston [00:31:14]:
Yeah. Let me. Let me pick one. Do men want women to initiate conversations? This is actually a good question because I feel like a lot of girls. Actually, I'm changing up my question with this. On a first date, what are you guys looking for now? Okay, let's take their relationship with God portion out of this, because that's a given. On the first date, what are you really looking for? Like, what would happen on a first date that would make you go, okay, I'll give this a second date.

Derek Brown [00:31:51]:
Yeah. Any connection. Chemistry is probably the right word. Like, can I talk to you? Right. Like, there can be like, oh, the weather's nice. And then it's like crickets.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:32:01]:
Right.

Derek Brown [00:32:03]:
Just for an example. But it's just like, it, like, can I actually, like, hold a conversation? Like, do I like talking to you? Do I enjoy talking to you?

Leslie Johnston [00:32:09]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:32:11]:
Are you, like, funny? Not everyone's funny. That's different. Emotional standard. But, yeah, I guess just, like, can you, like. I mean, one day is one day, and that could be a few hours. And, like, if you're having struggle talking for a few hours, like, a lifetime is a little bit longer than a few hours. I know connection and love builds, but first impressions are important. Too.

Morgan May Treuil [00:32:30]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:32:30]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:32:31]:
That's great. That's good. What would you say, Gavin?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:32:33]:
Restate the questions. All right.

Leslie Johnston [00:32:34]:
What are you looking for on a first date? That would just.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:32:36]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:32:37]:
At least get you to the point where you're like, oh, okay, I'll give this a second date.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:32:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. First off, I'd definitely go off what he said. Connection, but, like, further than that. For me, what I'd be looking for in a second date is like, was I able to be myself around them? Was I able to be open around them? Like, am I comfortable around them? Did they, like, receive, like, the way I am in a good way, or was it, like, kind of judgmental about, you know, just what they thought about me or my career? Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:02]:
This is whatever. Interesting statement because I think it asks the bigger question. When you're going on a date, are you measuring them more or are you measuring how they are receiving you more?

Leslie Johnston [00:33:15]:
Like, is it how they make you feel?

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:16]:
Yeah. How they make you feel? Like, I guess, like, are you. Yeah. Which one are you thinking about more? Are you thinking more about how they make you feel and that causes you to want to go on a second date, or are you thinking more like. No, I. I feel like they're awesome regardless of. I don't know. I feel like that's interesting where you're.

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:31]:
You're kind of thinking about both of those things, I guess.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:33:34]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:33:34]:
I didn't. I wouldn't have thought about that before, but that makes a lot of sense.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:33:37]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:33:38]:
It's funny because my. I remember we talk about this all the time. I had a conversation with my mom a bunch of years ago, and I remember, I think I had gone on a date, and I was like, well, it's just hard because he didn't ask me, like, any deep questions about myself. Like, he didn't ask me anything that was, like. He asked me, like, super in depth questions. And my mom was like, I'm pretty sure most guys the first day are just trying to see if, like, she didn't use the word vibe. But you kind of have a vibe. Like, yes, okay, we can relax.

Leslie Johnston [00:34:05]:
Like you said, like, can I. Can we just, like, hold fun conversations? Can I be myself? And I'm like, I think sometimes girls have this standard for a first date that's like, I have to know how, like, spiritually DP is or how, like, he can do this or that. And it's like, sometimes the guys are just trying to, like, they're just trying to vibe, like, trying to figure out, like, does this work?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:34:27]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:34:27]:
So sometimes it's like. It's just like a different way that I feel like sometimes girls and guys approach a first date.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:34:32]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:34:33]:
Do you feel like there's a common misconception that girls have about Christian single guys? And by single, I just mean, like, unmarried guys.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:34:42]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:34:43]:
I feel like. I mean, you're saying the girl's perspective of the guy.

Morgan May Treuil [00:34:47]:
Yeah. Like, is there something that we think that's not true?

Derek Brown [00:34:50]:
I think the older people get, they could be like, oh, something's wrong with them. And that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:34:55]:
That's like, if you're older and like,

Derek Brown [00:34:58]:
oh, why is nobody dating them? And I don't think that's true. I think a lot of times it's like, give a guy a chance. I forgot what pastor said. I think it was. I can't remember. I'm not going to try. A pastor once said.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:12]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:35:14]:
If a guy asks you out and, like, you're like, even if you don't know, you don't know. Like, the date could be really fun. But a lot of girls say, no, no, no. Right. Like, I want to get to know you more. I've heard that before. Guy asked a girl out on day. I want to get to know you more.

Derek Brown [00:35:28]:
So not yet. I'm like, what's the point of a date? Right.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:31]:
Right.

Derek Brown [00:35:31]:
So go on one date. One date doesn't mean marriage. But when. Yeah. When people are a misconception of guys getting older, I don't think it's. Anything's wrong with them.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:39]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:35:40]:
I do think girls. And I've seen this happen. Start to give those guys less of

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:44]:
a chance, though, because. Because there's, like, a weird misconception that something's wrong.

Derek Brown [00:35:48]:
Yeah. Which is absolutely not true.

Morgan May Treuil [00:35:50]:
Which on the. On the flip side, it's like people that are older that haven't, like, gotten married yet or aren't dating right now, it's like you. The argument is actually they're more patient to wait for God's best and God's timing.

Derek Brown [00:36:01]:
Yeah. They're still waiting on a godly person,

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:04]:
which is really cool. It's a great one.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:36:06]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:07]:
Gavin, did you have one?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:36:08]:
I have nothing to add on that

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:09]:
one, but did you have a misconception?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:36:11]:
Misconception?

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:12]:
Like a misconception of like. Like something that girls think about guys. That's not true. You don't have to.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:36:18]:
No.

Morgan May Treuil [00:36:18]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:36:18]:
Nothing to add.

Leslie Johnston [00:36:20]:
What. What do you guys wish girls knew about being a guy today? Like, what are some things you're like, man, if girls only knew how hard it is to Be a guy in this way or that way.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:36:32]:
Like, what would you say I would start off with? I mean, we see the way the economy is trending, you know what I'm saying? It's a lot stress is stressful. You know, I'm saying we're trying to, especially as like a young man that we are, like we're trying to develop in our careers. I don't know where he's at or, you know, just people in general are on different paths. But like, for me right now I'm trying to develop in my career. I know, like I'm working, you know, working my way up, you know, trying to build on that, you know what I'm saying? But like the, the economy is also, you know. Yeah. Continuing to go up and things are getting more expensive. So it's like a lot of that pressure on a day to day basis.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:37:05]:
Like, where will I be again? Like the conversation we had earlier right now, if I was to find my person compared to like in 10 years. So, like I'm gonna just make, I'm gonna make her way, I'm stay single type thing. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's a good one.

Derek Brown [00:37:17]:
Yeah. Because there's, I think as a guy, especially Christian men, I think there's a sense of obligation to provide. Right. The Bible calls us to provide, to protect and yeah. Going on the economy, I mean, gas is almost $7. It's like, it's making it tough. And it's like, like we want to treat whoever we're going out with. And I think it can be, it can be tough.

Derek Brown [00:37:36]:
As a guy, something that we struggle with eternally is like, especially young adults, like developing our careers, as Gavin said. Yeah. Money, Money can be tough.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:37:44]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:37:45]:
When a girl is ending a relationship with you, but not like a serious one. Right. Yeah. Like the one or two dates thing. Right. Like, and you ask her out for a third date and then she's about to tell you no because she's not feeling it.

Derek Brown [00:37:58]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:37:58]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:37:59]:
What's the best way for girls to do that? And the side question to this is like, how do men process rejection? Because I think it can be different.

Derek Brown [00:38:07]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:07]:
Woman to man, how you process rejection?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:38:12]:
For me, I'm naturally just a confident person, so I don't take it the wrong way. I take it as best as I possibly can. Like just getting closure in general is enough for me. Like, not really. Maybe how they go about it just because I move with confidence after the fact anyways. But I think just the idea of them reaching out and you Know, Letting. Letting me know is all I do appreciate because I don't need too much at the end of the day, if it's too.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:35]:
You appreciate the clarity of, like, hey, it's over, but you're not looking for too much.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:38:39]:
Yeah, I don't need too much. If it's further down, down the road. Yeah. Then, sure, maybe.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:43]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:38:43]:
Need a little bit more, but. Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:45]:
Yeah, that's good.

Derek Brown [00:38:45]:
Yeah. I think it's like he said, respectful, I think is the word he used. It's very. The right guy won't get too upset about it.

Morgan May Treuil [00:38:52]:
Okay.

Derek Brown [00:38:52]:
And I've been in that seat before. It's like, oh, one or two dates, you feel like it's going well, and then maybe on the other side it's not.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:38:59]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:38:59]:
Not going well doesn't mean, like, anything's wrong with you. It just might not be the right person.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:03]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:39:04]:
But as far as, like, one or two dates, I don't think it's like, how much do you. How much does she owe the guy?

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:09]:
Right, Right.

Derek Brown [00:39:10]:
Like, what are. What are the standards? Is it text, a phone call? Ghosting, in my opinion, is never the option.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:15]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:39:15]:
Never be like, oh, we're having fun, and now just disappear. Like, that's never the option or never a good option. But I think. Yeah. Text message. Because you said two dates, right?

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:24]:
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:39:24]:
Text message is fine.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:26]:
Quick text. Just fire. Quick text off and maybe.

Derek Brown [00:39:29]:
Maybe a little longer.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:39:31]:
Over.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:32]:
Yeah, it is.

Derek Brown [00:39:33]:
But, yeah, I mean, like Gavin said, you don't need to explain.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:35]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:39:36]:
Your reasoning as far as, if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. And I think some guys take that as, oh, there's something wrong with me. Oh, she's this.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:39:43]:
This.

Derek Brown [00:39:43]:
This.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:39:44]:
I don't know.

Derek Brown [00:39:44]:
It's like, you need to be able to take that as a respectful thing for them to reach out and give you the time to say that and. And be okay with that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:39:53]:
It's so interesting. They're so much better. I was just thinking about being a single girl and going on dates and being like. Like, there. I remember a certain person that I had gone on, like, two or three dates with. They ended it. It was. I was owed nothing.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:08]:
These were, like, no dates, basically. And at the end of it, I'm like, a couple weeks later, I'm like, I still need more closure. I'm, like, sending messages asking for more, and it's like, what is that about us?

Leslie Johnston [00:40:20]:
Honestly, it's like, we don't. You don't even want to know.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:40:22]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:40:23]:
Because it's probably going to hurt your feelings.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:24]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:40:25]:
It's like some guy eventually will love those things about you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:28]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:40:28]:
But.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:28]:
Right.

Leslie Johnston [00:40:29]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:29]:
I think if I. If when we do the closure episode, I'll talk about this, but my, my big passion stance now is like, don't ask for more.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:40:36]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:40:37]:
Like, what you guys have said, I

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:38]:
think is so good. You don't need too much information. Like, nothing good will come from you knowing too much information about why it

Gavin Davis Smith [00:40:44]:
didn't work for them.

Leslie Johnston [00:40:45]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:45]:
Yeah, it does. It just hits your confidence.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:40:47]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:40:48]:
And yeah. Being, Being confident, being able to be like, it's not her, it's not me. It's just not gonna work.

Morgan May Treuil [00:40:53]:
Yeah, it's not gonna work.

Derek Brown [00:40:54]:
Yeah. And being able to be like, yeah, like, yeah, if she starts listing things, as a girl, I wouldn't do that necessarily. I've seen that happen before where it's like, you did this. I didn't like that. Like, we don't need that after.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:41:04]:
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:41:05]:
Like, hopefully there's enough respect, mutual respect between the two to not tear the other person down.

Morgan May Treuil [00:41:09]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:41:09]:
But we don't need too much.

Morgan May Treuil [00:41:10]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:41:11]:
Well. And I've seen so many couples where. And even myself included were things that, like, maybe a previous boyfriend didn't like, were things that my next boyfriend was like, oh, my gosh, I love that about you. Like, and it's just so. It's. Some of that is so healing too. But what would you guys say when you are in a relationship? What does like, actually leading spiritually look like? Because I feel like it's such. It's like this kind of like way up here phrase that we, like, make sure he leads you spiritually.

Leslie Johnston [00:41:39]:
But, like, what does that actually mean? Boots on the ground.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:41:43]:
Right.

Leslie Johnston [00:41:44]:
In a dating scenario to you.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:41:45]:
Yeah, Yeah. I would say obviously spiritually, like, barriers are gonna need to be set, like, physically. Right. So that conversation has to be brought up. It has to be talked about.

Morgan May Treuil [00:41:56]:
How soon?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:41:58]:
I mean, as soon as you're getting ready to get into a relationship, I think it should be talked about before you. Yeah, I think it should be talked about before you start dating so that you're on the same page when you actually start dating. And then you do get tempted. It's not like, let's sin.

Morgan May Treuil [00:42:11]:
You're not making the rules.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:42:12]:
We haven't had the conversation. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like that's important. But also like, being the person in that relationship, when temptation comes, obviously the woman can do it too. And she, You Know, should do it. Right. Both people can, you know, lead in that way. But, like, as the man, be the first person out in front leading.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:42:27]:
Like, no, like, this is too far. This is too much. You know, let's. Let's stop there type thing. And then just in terms of everything else as well, like, being that person, you know, in the church, let's serve, let's do this, let's do that. But, like, that's something both people can do. But, like, as the man, I feel like you should be out in front.

Morgan May Treuil [00:42:44]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:42:45]:
Doing that.

Leslie Johnston [00:42:46]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:42:46]:
It's a great way of putting it.

Derek Brown [00:42:47]:
I say even, like, aside from that, like, be each other's, like, biggest supporters, especially in public and in private. In both ways. Like, dispute, maybe disagreements behind closed doors. Right. If you're in person, you're in a group, she says something or you say something, you should, like, back each other up, I think. And I think being in a relationship, a godly relationship, it's a team, it's a partnership, and you need to be able to uphold that.

Leslie Johnston [00:43:14]:
That's good.

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:14]:
Do you have a spirit? A spiritual ick?

Derek Brown [00:43:17]:
Spiritual ick.

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:22]:
It's okay if you do.

Derek Brown [00:43:23]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:23]:
You can be honest.

Leslie Johnston [00:43:25]:
For me, I always know when you have something. It's always like,

Morgan May Treuil [00:43:31]:
I have one. It's about to blow everyone's socks off.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:43:34]:
For me, it's like, I always look at it in terms of, like, the idea of, like, do I believe in God or do I follow God? Some. Some people are obsessed, like, with the idea of God, like, as an aesthetic. Like, it goes back to social media. But, like, that's just the world, you know, that's. That's the world we live in now. Like, it's just so. It's such a digital world, but, like, even besides social media, that's like, the cross on the necklace. But they could post them with the cross on the necklace, like, getting drunk.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:44:00]:
You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, what are we doing? You know what I'm saying?

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:03]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:44:03]:
So stuff like that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:05]:
So the spiritual ick for you is like, do you believe in God or are you, like, a follower? Is your life changed because of it? That's a good one.

Leslie Johnston [00:44:12]:
Yeah.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:44:13]:
Like, where's your world?

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:14]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:44:14]:
Yes. It's wild because, like, even though, like, I'm a little bit older than Morgan, but we're a little bit older than you guys, and I feel like what I grew up in, being a Christian was, like, not cool. Like, it wasn't, like, the trendy thing to do. And now I feel like socials and everything. Like, it's kind of trendy to be a Christian, so it's hard for you guys to be like, okay, I'm kind of weeding through. Like, is someone doing this? Because it's like, well, everybody else is saying this. Everybody else is doing this thing on their social media and it's like, is it legit or not?

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:46]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:44:46]:
And that's funny because, like, I don't feel like I had to deal with that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:48]:
No.

Leslie Johnston [00:44:49]:
Because it wasn't cool to be.

Morgan May Treuil [00:44:50]:
I think you're right. Well, I think social, like, social media gives a platform and a voice to create more tribes. So I think, like, yeah. All of a sudden you've got these leaders online that are sharing how they're a Christian. And it's like I'm thinking about like the Brandon Lake Nick Jonas collab that just happened and it's like, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:45:10]:
Oh, wow.

Morgan May Treuil [00:45:10]:
Yeah. You should listen to their new song, a song called the Author, and it's about God and it's really, really great song, but it's like it was kind of like an under wraps thing until one Brandon Lake show, he invites Nick Jonas out to like sing this new song with him. And that was the, the premiere of the song. Yeah. And what's cool about that is, you know, we now live in a time frame where there's a lot of publicity to Christianity and that creates awareness for people to come and follow that might not have had awareness before that. Great thing.

Leslie Johnston [00:45:41]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:45:41]:
But to your point. Yeah. Now it's like more important than ever to ask those questions. Like, is there fruit behind just the banner or the title or the Instagram bio, which. The Instagram bio is an illustration even like in and of itself, because you're able to condense your life down into this one statement.

Derek Brown [00:45:58]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:45:59]:
That might not be true at all. Like, God can be in your Instagram bio. Bible Bible verse can be in your Instagram bio. And yet, like, your. Your life could not be about following God. It could just be about believing that God exists as an idea.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:46:10]:
Right? Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:46:10]:
Which is very different.

Leslie Johnston [00:46:11]:
Right.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:46:11]:
And that's why people are all at different walks in their faith too. And some don't even realize it. Like, I have God in my bio, but I'm out here doing this. They don't know because they're not that deep in their faith, which is something I've realized. But obviously it's just not. Not my person if that's the case. Anyways. But I think discernment's at an all time high, right? Like, for example, like, on the flip side, like, I've.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:46:28]:
The current girl I'm talking to right now. Like, I had mentioned, you know, Faith at. At first. Like, that was one of the first conversations I had when talking, like, over the phone. Right. And she thought I was mentioning it, like, as a way to get at her because she's a woman of God. And I thought it was interesting because, like, I kind of took that away. Like, no, like, I'm actually a man of God.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:46:46]:
And then. Yeah, yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:46:48]:
She thought that you were, like, using it as a way in without that being, like, your thing.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:46:51]:
Right, right. Because. Because. Because she, like, portrayed that she was a woman of God, so she thought I was just using it as a way to get at her. And then she realized, like, got to know me, and she's like, oh, no, you're really about your walk.

Leslie Johnston [00:47:02]:
She's podcast and be like, I really, really love Jesus.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:07]:
God. No, that's a good point.

Leslie Johnston [00:47:08]:
Yeah, that's awesome.

Derek Brown [00:47:09]:
And I don't think that's a bad thing for her to do at all.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:47:11]:
Yeah, that's. Discernment is, you know, at the end of the day.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:14]:
So discernment is asking those questions.

Leslie Johnston [00:47:18]:
Do you like the idea of God, or are you okay with him actually being, like, lord of your life? Yeah, like, there's a difference between being like, I love Jesus over there.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:47:27]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:47:27]:
But, like, oh, he wants to change what I do or what I believe or what I think about things. Oh, I'm not good with that. That's like. Yeah, that's tough.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:36]:
How important do you guys think mentorship within dating relationships is? Like, having somebody who checks you on this stuff or leads accountability? Accountability, Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:47:48]:
I think it's. I mean, it's one of the most important things.

Morgan May Treuil [00:47:50]:
Is that, like, peer to peer for you, or is that, like, somebody who's ahead of you? What does that look like?

Derek Brown [00:47:55]:
I think it could be both. Personally, I'm more on the side of someone who's ahead of you in life, whether that's even, like, you or Elijah. Shout out. Yeah, but somebody who's in, like, the next stage of life. Right. We're dating. You guys are married. Not together, but you guys are married.

Derek Brown [00:48:12]:
But to the point where it's like, hey, you've walked through this. How did you do it? Right.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:48:15]:
You.

Derek Brown [00:48:16]:
Rather than. Because if you have a peer, it can be helpful, but they're also in the same struggles, the same life stage as you.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:21]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:48:22]:
And they might even, like, be telling you what they're telling themselves. They're Giving advice to you, but it might not be the right advice because they might be, like, trying to cover up for themselves. So someone in the next stage, I feel like, is very, very important to have.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:33]:
That's good.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:33]:
And sometimes people in the next stage are like, don't make the same mistakes I did. You know, like, I'm really gonna. I'm gonna help you not fall into the traps that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:42]:
Yes.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:42]:
You know, they fell into.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:43]:
You're. You have a phrase where you're like, hindsight is actually not 2020 when it comes to dating relationships essentially being like, after the breakup. You're.

Leslie Johnston [00:48:52]:
You're always like, that was the greatest person ever.

Morgan May Treuil [00:48:54]:
And I am. Which is not always true. But for the person that's ahead of you, that's not you, their Hindsight is always 2020. So it's like, that's the person whose past experiences you can actually, like, you can learn from and listen to.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:49:09]:
Yeah, yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:11]:
This is kind of a sillier one. And I know we're running out of time, so we can rapid fire these, but how important is physical attraction at the outset of a relationship outside?

Derek Brown [00:49:20]:
You mean, like, as the initial.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:22]:
Yeah, your initial attraction.

Derek Brown [00:49:24]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:25]:
Physical attraction.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:49:27]:
Yeah, I think it's. It's definitely important because that's the person you're gonna, you know, spend your life with, and you want to just be attracted to them.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:34]:
Like, in that, like, attraction can grow over time, though. Like, would you ask somebody out that you weren't necessarily physically attracted to with the possibility of that growing?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:49:44]:
No, I would never. With the possibility of it growing. Because at the end of the day, like, at the end of life, it's going to be gone anyways when we get old. You know what I'm saying? Like, people age. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:52]:
Like. Like, would you, like, if you weren't attracted to her at first.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:49:57]:
Oh, okay.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:58]:
But you liked her personality.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:49:59]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:49:59]:
Would you go out with that person maybe thinking that the physical attraction could grow as you get to know her better?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:50:07]:
I may give it, like, time, like, just a couple dates and get to know her, like, for who she really is. Like, yeah, I think that's important because at the end of the day, like, it's more than just physical attraction. Right. But it is important.

Morgan May Treuil [00:50:17]:
And eventually it'll be 85 and. Yeah, we'll have teeth anymore.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:50:20]:
Exactly. Real. That's real. Like, yeah, I know.

Leslie Johnston [00:50:24]:
Because on the one hand, you're like, okay, yes, attraction can grow. And if someone's really attractive and you get to know them, and their personality sucks. And sometimes you're like, that'll be. They could become less attractive. So it can go both ways. But I actually agree with you when you first said. Because I. I talked to this.

Leslie Johnston [00:50:44]:
These, like, marriage experts who, like, ran this marriage camp, and they do all these counseling. They, like, council couples in the NFL and all this stuff. And they're, like, pretty traditional. And it was so funny because one time someone asked that same question, they're like, is it okay if I'm, like, not super attracted to the person, but they have a great personality? And I remember they were like, you have to be attracted to them. Like, and I was shocked that they said that because I would assume they would say the opposite. But they're like, life is a Marriage

Morgan May Treuil [00:51:14]:
is a long time.

Leslie Johnston [00:51:15]:
And, like, if you are initially. And now I can grow a little bit, obviously. But it's like, if you don't initially have some attraction to them, you're kind of setting yourself up to be, like, tempted and have issues later in the future. So it's like, I see both sides, but then I'm also like. I remember them saying that it's always stuck with me where it's like, there's got to be some level of attraction.

Morgan May Treuil [00:51:36]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:51:36]:
And that's actually an important part of it.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:51:38]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:51:38]:
That's good. In my opinion.

Morgan May Treuil [00:51:41]:
Okay, last question. Maybe. Unless you have another one. I'll ask one, and then you can ask the last one if you. Okay. What's the dating advice you would give your younger sister?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:51:51]:
I would say everyone's not the one. Like, just because it's a failed date or he's pursuing you, and then you can't get a sign. Like, you don't have to be sitting there in circles going, like, is he just playing games with me? Is he not? Like, don't. Don't waste your time. Like, intentionality is everything. Yeah. So, like, every guy you mean talk to is not going to be the one. Like, it's okay to fail in the talking stage.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:52:12]:
It's okay to fail dating someone and, you know, try for a new person. So that's the advice I give.

Derek Brown [00:52:17]:
It's great. My imaginary younger sister, I would tell her, kind of going off that a little bit, but I think, especially as Christians, one thing that I used to do, and I think a lot of girls do, because they can just view it differently, but they're like, one date is marriage. Right. Or two dates is marriage. I think that's really dangerous in my mind, because we want to date with the intention to marry. But that doesn't mean the first few dates are a marriage license or something. And I think a lot of people, whether or not you word it that way, can view it that way.

Morgan May Treuil [00:52:51]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:52:51]:
And I think that's why a lot of guys, or, like in how we talked about earlier, get rejected on a first date because, like, oh, one day that opens the door. It's too much to open up right now. Right. And I think, like, like you said, there's physical attraction and there's attraction in personality as well that will lead to going on that date. But, like, if I was telling my younger sister, being like, hey, give a guy a chance. Go on one or two dates, if it doesn't work out, you don't like him, be done with him. Like. Like, respectfully, send him that text.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:19]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:53:19]:
Or call or conversation, whatever it is. But it's not necessarily, like, don't get too caught up on one person. Yeah, right. Love. Love builds. I think Kevin Thompson just said that. Love builds.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:29]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:53:30]:
Over time.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:30]:
Yeah, yeah. And to slow down a little bit.

Derek Brown [00:53:33]:
Slow down.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:33]:
Don't put the cart before the horse.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:53:35]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:35]:
That's great.

Derek Brown [00:53:36]:
I don't think I've heard that, but yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:37]:
It's a Texas illustration.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:53:39]:
Yeah. Makes sense.

Derek Brown [00:53:40]:
Texas illustration. It makes sense.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:43]:
Don't skip to the end.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:53:44]:
Yeah, yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:53:44]:
Then you miss all the.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:53:46]:
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Brown [00:53:46]:
All the fun stuff. Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:53:48]:
I think my final question will be, how do you know which. Obviously, neither of you are engaged or married yet, but how would you foresee, like, knowing that someone is the one?

Derek Brown [00:54:01]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:54:01]:
Or. And how does, like, God play into that?

Derek Brown [00:54:05]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:54:05]:
Like, what would you do to, like, seek out from God if you're, like, confirmation or kind of. What. What would that process look like for you? You think?

Gavin Davis Smith [00:54:15]:
I would say me personally prayer and asking for signs and then following those signs along the way. On top of that, matched with Prairie would be something that you haven't felt before with another person. Like, you just know it's different. That's what I'd say. Because, like, at the end of the day, like, we're all growing, we're getting older. Like, we. We've been on dates with maybe multiple people. Like, you can discern, well how this person is different than the last person.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:54:39]:
And then you pray about it, and you pray that dangerous prayer. Like, God, if they're meant to, you know, be in my life, then just keep showing me those signs. If not, like, just remove them. You know what I'm saying? And that's that dangerous prayer. And if God keeps Answering those prayers and showing you those signs, then I think it's like, it's a sign to follow and keep pursuing it further along.

Derek Brown [00:54:57]:
Yeah, no, prayer is super, super important. One prayer that I've. I've prayed many, many times is like, do I see this woman, whoever I'm with or potentially dating or anybody, do I see them raising my children? And I. I really like to look into the future, like, in. As a big picture moment. And at the end of the day, you're. You're raising a family. You're going to be raising a family with somebody.

Derek Brown [00:55:21]:
And can you see that happening?

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:23]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:55:23]:
Right. In a godly way.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:24]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:55:25]:
If you disagree on small things in the. Like, at the beginning, like I said, you put your best foot forward and you're disagreeing on little things, and that's okay to disagree. You're not the same person. Yeah, but if you're having arguments over, like. Like, dumb things with the girl, and that's okay.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:40]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:55:41]:
But stuff like that grows, like, you're having arguments about this or that. That can be arguments about how do we raise the kids? Do we go to church every week? Like, is it a partnership and a partnership that you could see yourself actually raising children?

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:53]:
That's a good one.

Derek Brown [00:55:54]:
Children of God with.

Morgan May Treuil [00:55:54]:
Yeah, that's great, you guys. Great. I love that.

Leslie Johnston [00:55:58]:
Lots of wisdom coming over so much couch for us.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:02]:
Or you just have all the wisdom just locked in there on the couch. You all just know everything.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:56:06]:
I have a question. Is there anything you guys maybe disagree with that we may have said?

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:11]:
Oh, that's a good question.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:56:13]:
Yeah, I like that, like, you just see it differently, huh?

Derek Brown [00:56:19]:
In your time.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:20]:
I don't feel like I disagree with anything. I think there's a lot of things that you said where I'm like, oh, it's good to hear that alternative perspective.

Derek Brown [00:56:27]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:27]:
Because it is clear when we talk to you guys, the female brain and the male brain do work really differently.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:56:32]:
Absolutely.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:34]:
And like, y'.

Leslie Johnston [00:56:35]:
All.

Morgan May Treuil [00:56:35]:
It's funny, y' all just lead more logic than my brain operates with. Like, my brain leads more emotion when it comes to things like this. And even, like, that response of, like. Well, first, the response of, like, prayer and asking God for signs and following them and yours, like, picture the future. Like, do you see her raising your children? And it's like, wow, those are, like, really logical, sturdy answers. And they were things I was not at all considering when I, like, I was really way more grasping at the emotional connection of it all, which wasn't right. I was also In a much different season than you guys were when I was trying to consider these things. So I don't.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:14]:
Nothing I disagree with just, like, differences in different. How brains work, which I think is why we're doing this podcast.

Derek Brown [00:57:20]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:20]:
To help girls understand.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:21]:
Yeah. I think initially I was like, really was. When we asked about if a guy is just not ready for a relationship, I used to think that was always a cop out. Like, it was like, yeah. Just this cop out of, like, you just don't like her. Like, just tell her you don't like her. It's always like, I'm not ready, whatever. But you explaining like, no.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:41]:
A lot of guys do feel the stress of feeling like they're not confident enough if they haven't gotten to a certain place in life.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:49]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:49]:
And so I think that's actually good for girls to hear, to not always take it so personally if a guy says that.

Morgan May Treuil [00:57:55]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:57:55]:
That sometimes it is like, truly, they just aren't in a spot they want to date right now.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:58:00]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [00:58:01]:
But I also like your challenge to the guys to be like, don't miss out on a great girl who you can build a life with instead of just having a life and hoping she can join it later down the road.

Derek Brown [00:58:12]:
Yeah. Because there's no perfect time.

Morgan May Treuil [00:58:14]:
Yeah.

Derek Brown [00:58:15]:
Right.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:58:15]:
Yeah.

Morgan May Treuil [00:58:15]:
Are there any things you don't understand about girls that we could fill you in on?

Leslie Johnston [00:58:22]:
They're like, we're the expert girls.

Derek Brown [00:58:24]:
The expert girls right here.

Gavin Davis Smith [00:58:26]:
So I guess on the flip side is like, the chemistry mouse thing. Like, a real thing. Like, y' all just really do want to.

Morgan May Treuil [00:58:31]:
Yeah. But I My opinion on that, because I've played the game many a time, so me, I think it has way less to do with drama and way more to do with, like, affirmation and trying to suss out if somebody actually likes you. Like, the feeling of being. Which is unhealthy. Like, the unhealthiness of it is I shouldn't need to feel chased by you in order to feel secure in our relationship. And yet that game is played more so for the purpose of figuring out if you really like them. And I think sometimes when they push away, it's almost like an extra challenge of, like, are you willing to overcome that barrier? And then I'll know that you really like me, and then I'll know that it's legit. So I think it has less to do with drama and more to do with insecurity and the need to, like, be confident in the person's feelings for you.

Leslie Johnston [00:59:25]:
I think it could Be also insecurity in the way of, like, when they. And this is very specific, but I've seen this in myself. I've seen this in other girls where if they are in the driver's seat of, like, okay, they texted me back or they pursued me, and now I'm waiting to let them know. It's almost like this moment of, oh, I'm in control. Like, I don't have to be insecure. Like, I don't have to be then waiting on them. So I think some girls, it's not necessarily even a game. It's like this game in their mind of, like, oh, I want to be, like, secure in this moment.

Leslie Johnston [01:00:02]:
So it's almost like I'm gonna let them wait because I feel better not being the one waiting for it to us back. Which, like. And some of that, you kind of just have to, like. I mean, honestly, guys should just call it out. It's like, are we doing this or are we not? You know, Because I think sometimes, or girls, like, they love to be pursued. And so it's almost like they want to sit in that and not have to put themselves out there. And so to me, it's like, I mean, yeah, we just need to get over it.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:00:26]:
But I have a question. One more.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:28]:
Oh, my gosh.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:00:29]:
Is there a difference between being pursued and being chased?

Leslie Johnston [01:00:35]:
Oh, like, are you screaming, running away, chasing.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:00:38]:
Exactly.

Morgan May Treuil [01:00:38]:
Like a bear's chasing.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:00:40]:
Like, where does. Where's the line? I guess.

Leslie Johnston [01:00:42]:
You know, when does it become.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:00:43]:
Yeah, like, creepy, I guess.

Leslie Johnston [01:00:45]:
Oh, this is too much.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:00:46]:
Yeah. Or maybe not too much, but, like, from the guy's perspective, like, she's making me pursue her. Okay. But now, like, it's almost like I'm chasing. Like, I'm doing too much. You know what I'm saying? Like, does that make sense or no?

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:00]:
Yeah, it does make sense.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:02]:
Like, from the girl's perspective.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:01:03]:
Yeah, maybe. Maybe from, like, the girl's perspective.

Morgan May Treuil [01:01:06]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:06]:
I mean, I feel like most girls will. If there is pursuing being done, it should reciprocate. Like, if. If a guy's pursued me in the past and I've been like, I've never been like, oh, you. You have to, like, chase me more. Like. And I don't know, I might. I may be a little different.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:31]:
But I feel like guys should. If you're pursuing and they're at least giving you something back, keep pursuing. But if you keep pursuing and you're like, they're just keeping farther and farther away, then you're like, okay, maybe this has now turned into a chase.

Gavin Davis Smith [01:01:45]:
Yeah.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:46]:
And she's not into it.

Derek Brown [01:01:47]:
You're almost chasing. Chasing the image of what you want the person to be.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:51]:
Yes.

Derek Brown [01:01:51]:
Rather than who they actually are.

Leslie Johnston [01:01:53]:
And I also think if you're having to chase someone a ton during dating, you are going to be chasing them down emotionally in marriage. Like, you will be like, I have no idea what they're thinking. Like, they're just emotionally kind of unavailable. So it's like, that may be fun in dating, but that's probably not fun in marriage when you're like, I get the silent treatment all the time. I, like, can't figure them out. Like, that, to me, would be exhausting.

Morgan May Treuil [01:02:15]:
Yeah, I feel the same way. I wouldn't add nothing else to that.

Leslie Johnston [01:02:19]:
It's great.

Morgan May Treuil [01:02:20]:
Okay, we are wrapping up right now. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Am I doing this right?

Gavin Davis Smith [01:02:26]:
Thank you for having me.

Morgan May Treuil [01:02:27]:
And we will see you guys back here next time. Next Monday, whenever you listen to this. And we'll see you guys next week.

Derek Brown [01:02:34]:
Sweet.

Leslie Johnston [01:02:34]:
That's right.

Morgan May Treuil [01:02:35]:
Thank you.

Leslie Johnston [01:02:35]:
Bye.

Derek Brown [01:02:35]:
Bye.